Greg's Bandit 400 Fuel Injection Project...

[El Gringo]

Cracking Job Greg, really enjoying this 

[greg737]

There was something else wrong with the pulse signal? (apart from it being too wide?)

Yes, there was a second problem with the pulse signal.  I had it wired up wrong.  The Variable Reluctance (VR) sensor has two wires and I accidentally got them hooked up to the Microsquirt backwards.  When a VR is wired backwards it's pretty hard to tell until you start revving the engine up.  At idle or just above idle a backwards wired VR sensor looks almost normal.

So when I started going out on test rides I found that the Bandit couldn't rev past 6,000 RPM.

Fixing the problem was very easy, all I had to do was disconnect the plastic wiring connector plug on the VR line from the left engine cover and reverse the pins, then plug it back in.

Then I had to re-accomplish the basic timing setting with the timing strobe light.  Just a 30 minute job all together.  And as you can tell from the videos, the Bandit runs great now.

Still sounds like you don't have an exhaust muffler 

Yeah, it's pretty loud.  The baffling material inside the Yoshimura exhaust canister is probably well past its useful lifespan.

Another reason the videos sound like they do is I'm using a plug-in microphone that is of a much higher quality than the basic microphone on the video camera.  I've been positioning the microphone at the tail end of the Bandit, just behind the tailbag that holds the laptop computer.

Did you go full throttle in the 2nd video?

No, just to about 80-85% of throttle.  The highest RPM on the most recent video is just over 11,000.

[bdouvill]

Amazing videos 
Is it me or did you run the Bandit quite slow? Even when you accelerate hard, the motorcycle seems so slow on the video :-(
Maybe that is just an impression. ..
Anyway, sounds louder than my stock stainless steel exhaust, even if I understood the microphone is near the exhaust. Sounds also like the engine is running great.
Good job 

[nsc]

Hello again Greg!
I would like to ask you just for reference and a more complete thread (although i don't know how much more complete it can be, you have nailed this from the beginning  )
what addition would you do to your setup in case of a V-engine powered Bandit?
  for the excellent build...

[greg737]

Is it me or did you run the Bandit quite slow? Even when you accelerate hard, the motorcycle seems so slow on the video :-(
Maybe that is just an impression. ..

You're right, I was moving the throttle in a relatively slow, progressive manner rather than "snapping" it open.  And I was doing the accelerations in the video in 2nd, 3rd and a bit of 4th gear.  The highest speed I saw during the accelerations in the video was 70 MPH (112 KPH).

I'm riding the Bandit this way due to the current rough state of its Fueling Table.  I built up the Fueling Table or VE (Volumetric Efficiency) table for the Bandit based on nothing more than "best guess" information.  Because of this the table has "rough spots" (too lean or too rich) that need to be polished smooth and perfected before I can ride the Bandit with absolute freedom and confidence that it won't suddenly go super-lean or way over-rich.

It's going to take a good amount of riding the Bandit around with the laptop computer hooked up to the Microsquirt to correct the fueling table into perfect condition.  The laptop computer will be in the Bandit's tailbag, connected to the Microsquirt.  The laptop will be running the Tune Analyze Live function of the TunerStudio software so it can continuously examine and correct the fueling table based on moment-by-moment feedback from the exhaust O2 sensor. 



 

[t6nis]

Greg,

why arent you thinking about a raspberry PI? its basically a little laptop. Put it inside an waterproof box, after a ride, just hook up a keyboard and a hdmi screen, everything works from a sd card and runs on linux. u can even add a wifi module, what gives u a opportunity to upload that info to your laptop without hooking it up.

[greg737]

Greg,

why arent you thinking about a raspberry PI? its basically a little laptop. Put it inside an waterproof box, after a ride, just hook up a keyboard and a hdmi screen, everything works from a sd card and runs on linux. u can even add a wifi module, what gives u a opportunity to upload that info to your laptop without hooking it up.

Tônis,

You're way out beyond my level of computer awareness.  I'm not even very interested in computer tech.  I know just enough to get the job done.  I think that the TunerStudio software only runs on a Windows operating system, so I'll just keep on using my old Lenovo laptop for tuning purposes.

Also, I put the carb needles (and the little clips) in the mail to you yesterday.

[t6nis]

Actually tunerstudio would run on linux. It was just an suggestion for making your life easier :)

[Squishy]

Amazing videos 
Is it me or did you run the Bandit quite slow? Even when you accelerate hard, the motorcycle seems so slow on the video :-(
Maybe that is just an impression. ..
Anyway, sounds louder than my stock stainless steel exhaust, even if I understood the microphone is near the exhaust. Sounds also like the engine is running great.
Good job 

That's what i thought.. that's why I asked whether he was going full throttle.
Curious to see a 100% throttle.. my 400 climbs through the revs way faster.

Greg,

why arent you thinking about a raspberry PI? its basically a little laptop. Put it inside an waterproof box, after a ride, just hook up a keyboard and a hdmi screen, everything works from a sd card and runs on linux. u can even add a wifi module, what gives u a opportunity to upload that info to your laptop without hooking it up.

Tônis,

You're way out beyond my level of computer awareness.  I'm not even very interested in computer tech.  I know just enough to get the job done.  I think that the TunerStudio software only runs on a Windows operating system, so I'll just keep on using my old Lenovo laptop for tuning purposes.

Also, I put the carb needles (and the little clips) in the mail to you yesterday.

Trust me, when you can fiddle with microsquirt and timing like I've seen in this topic, setting up a raspberry pi would be a piece of cake (pun intented).
I would certainly consider it.
It might even be an idea to hook it up to your battery and permanently run the auto-mixture program.
Not sure if this is even necessary though....doesn't the microsquirt do this automatically based on the A/F sensor?
If so, what's the difference between the auto-program and the microsquirt using A/F information to adjust?

[Chris H]

Great work mate.
Is the bike finished and running yet.

If you want to convert the headlight to switch on and off I could send you a l/h switch unit over from the UK.

If you feel that the battery being in the rear is not helping handling there's always the option of converting to a light weight lithium type, they are less than half the weight of the standard battery and turn the engine better on start up.

[greg737]

Finally back in the garage today!!!

Actually, I spent yesterday (Sunday) in the garage, working on the Bandit and today I road it around for an hour.

I haven't touched my Bandit project bike since December, except for hooking up the battery tender a couple of times.  Why the long break?  I chose to work a lot during the last 6 months and spending time in the garage, while very enjoyable, is a very low priority so it's one of the first things I'll quit doing when I need to make time for other activities.

After allowing the bike to sit for 6 months it started up on the first press of the starter button.  This is one of the nicest things about a fuel injection system.

Yesterday I spent the afternoon disassembling and re-plumbing part of the fuel system.  I just wasn't satisfied with my original solution for the portion of the fuel system that runs from the fuel tank to the fuel pump and then back to the fuel tank.

The new re-plumbed version is a much shorter, more protected and logical route, both for outbound and return fuel flow. 

The new routing also allowed me to locate the feed-flow and return-flow fuel line quick-disconnects in hidden but accessible places.  These quick-disconnects allow for very easy removal of the fuel tank without having any fuel spills or drips because they're spring-loaded to close off when disconnected.

Today (Monday) I road the Bandit for about an hour.  The purpose of this ride was to allow the TunerStudio software run its Auto-tune function to fine-tune the fueling table (a 16X16 cell array that uses Intake Vacuum as the X axis and RPM as the Y axis).  This software running on my laptop computer which is in a tail-bag on the Bandit.  The laptop is connected to the Bandit's Microsquirt ECU by a USB cable.

I didn't get as much tuning done as I'd hoped to.  I discovered that when I hit bigger bumps on the road the USB adaptor would jiggle in the laptop's USB port and this would cause the laptop to lose connection with the ECU.

This was totally my fault for being lazy.  In the past I've always put a piece of tape around the USB adaptor, then secured it to the laptop.  But I didn't do it today.

[greg737]

There's a question (or opinion request) for the B4 forum members in this post:

But first, some setup of the situation...

I've been out riding again today on my fuel injection project Bandit 400.  I'm logging some miles with the laptop hooked up to the ECU so the TunerStudio software can perform its Auto-tuning magic on the fueling Volumetric Efficiency table (after every 10 or 15 minutes of riding I pull over and tell the laptop to update the ECU, then back to riding).

I have to say I'm still very new to the Bandit 400 experience.  I'm sure that almost every single one of you reading this thread-post has a bunch more B4 seat-time than I do.

So far I'm enjoying the nature/feel of the Bandit's performance envelope.

I'd never even ridden a B4 when I decided I wanted one.  The decision to get a B4 was based on my experience with my Kawasaki EX250.  I figured they would be similar rides: relatively low horsepower, high revs  with lots of engagement and action without the warp-speed consequences of a 600cc or 1000cc bike.  I like this type of riding and I what I was looking for was an Inline-4 engined version of the EX250.

After I searched for and purchased the bike I only road it 3 times before taking it into the garage for refurbishment and my fuel injection project.

So now I'm only just beginning to get the feel of riding the B4 and I'm discovering that the Bandit 400 is a bit more "Jekyll and Hyde" than my Kawasaki EX250.  The B4's performance potential is even more rev-dependent than the EX250! 

If you want real, hard acceleration from the B4 you have to take it above 8,000 and keep it there.  8,000 to 12,500 is were everything happens, anything below 8,000 is very mellow feeling.

Question/Opinion time: Is what I'm feeling a true representation of the B4?

[ventYl]

Hi greg. Mostly, what you described is true. The bike has two faces. One, acting between 3000 - 6000/8000 RPM (depends on jetting) behaves as polite, kind, calm commuter with slowly increasing power linearly increasing and being easy controllable by your right hand. After going over 8000 RPM the bikes can breathe in better (standard 16V engine nature) and large amount of horsepower suddenly appear kicking you much more even if you don't turn give it more gas. The power should be available well till 12000 RPM.

What I personally like is that the engine is able to work up from 3000 RPM when riding on level surface without weird noise or uneven engine operation. Going uphill requires only slightly more revs. Usually 4000 RPM is enough.

[Squishy]

I agree with the above.

However I do want to add this: the 400 really likes to run rich, especially mid-rpm.
On stock setup this was the characteristic:
Idle-4k RPM: very smooth, no bogging, pulls but nothing major.
4k-6k RPM: noticeable torque dip
6k-8k RPM: dip is gone torque is increasing
8k-12k RPM: it goes
12k-13.5k: torque is decreasing

So what I've found in owning it 5 years, trying out setups, I'm now running 110 main with stock setup. If I want max performance I put the needles +1 rich as well. I only have a slip-on exhaust:
Idle-4k RPM: very smooth, no bogging, pulls but nothing major
4k-10k RPM: now it starts increasing torque right from 4000rpm!! The 6k-8k part has basically expanded to 4k-10k, increasing linearly.
10k-13.5k: it goes. Noticeably more punch than stock 8k-12k pull. Top speed increased from 185km/h to 210km/h on the speedo.

At the moment I have the needles in the middle - for fuel consumption - because I'm using the bandit to go to work at the moment.
In this setup (mid needle, 110 main) it has better fuel consumption than my stock setup (100 main, needle+1 to remove 4k torque dip).
With 110 main the torque dip is almost gone, and still has the better top end, while getting 50 MPG (1/21).

Ok I wrote way too much. If I were you I would try experimenting with giving it more fuel in the mid and top end and see what happens.

[nsc]

Greg have you measured (or estimated) your fuel consumption?