Author Topic: I've become a statistic :(  (Read 13557 times)

Offline Stealth

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I've become a statistic :(
« on: November 26, 2006, 09:44:18 AM »
Like the title says:

I have become a statistic.
Yesterday I was riding because the weather was so good, after about 2 hours of riding, I started heading home. On this one street called Westheights, there was a stop sign. I stopped at the stop sign and then proceeded through, the street was pretty straight and I was on the right lane. There were 2 cars on the left lane right beside me. After the straightway finished, the street was bearing left, after this happend, I noticed that there was a red toyota corolla parked in my lane so I decided to accelerate and try and overtake the car to my left. I was very unsuccessful doing that, so my next objective was to stop the motorcycle imediately, Because of the momentum I gained by trying to overtake the car, the motorcycle was fast and single brakes are not that great to emergency stop. All this was happening while the street was bearing left. When I held the brake I noticed the Motorcycle stand upright and go directly ahead, I really had no other option so I let it smash into the curb, I think this is when I lost conciousness. After it hit the curb and I was flown off, the motorcycle tipped over and slid into the back of the parked 1991 Toyota Corolla.

Apparently I rolled a couple times before I hit the ground.
less than a minute later, I woke up on the grass with my back on the ground, I saw about 6 people rush towards me and asked me if I was ok. I told'em to take my helmet off because it felt really uncomfortable at the moment. After that I "I need water please", and after that I noticed my B4 under the trunk of the toyota. Gas and Oil was spilling all over the place so I asked them to please get it out <- Fuel and Oil spilling all over the place is pretty dangerous... So the stood it up and then I noticed a peice of the rear fender right beside me :( The bars looked kinda bent too.
A second after this I noticed the ambulance, fire truck, and police around me. The ambulance took me to the back of their truck and asked me what time it was, what day it was and what month and year it was. I didnt know any of the answers. So they rushed me to the hospital. I was in the waiting room for 2-3 hours before they found a bed for me.
The Doctor came in, took me the X-Ray and X-Ray'd my foot because I felt a lot of pressure in it.

The doctor came back in about 20 minutes and told me that its just a sprained ankle, he also told me that Im extremely lucky; which I think so too. I have a few scrapes on both my legs and my whole body is extremely sore.

After they let me out, My parents and I went to the site of the crash, I noticed that the place where I hit the curb, there was a huge concrete pole right beside it. It was a miracle that I didnt hit the pole, and its also a miracle that I didnt collide with the car.

My memory is pretty fuzzy though. The only thing I remember of the accident itself was that I was holding the brake and getting closer and closer to the car. after that, my mind is blank.

And thats the story of how I became a statistic yesterday.

A total fine of: $325 and 3-4 demerit points for "careless driving"

Offline Sven

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2006, 11:18:17 AM »
Wow.  Thanks for sharing your story.  You really *are* lucky to be almost unhurt.

I know you're probably thinking of all the things you could/should have done differently to avoid this.   It's important to learn from our mistakes (and those of us who read this can learn too), but what's done is done.  The bike is scrap, the fine's been assessed.  Learn, but move on.

Take care of yourself!
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2010 Yamaha FJR1300A | Gin Tama | the silver bullet
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Offline Vidrazor

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2006, 11:20:16 AM »
Good to hear you're (relatively) OK. Just chill and get better.

If that's all you're liable for, you got off light! What about that car? Was it damaged in any way?

Good luck.

Offline gsxr400 racer

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 12:17:39 PM »
Glad your ok mate , maybe with some advanced motorcycle training this wouldnt have been a issue! Not to preach or anything!! :beers:
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Offline interfuse

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2006, 12:48:11 PM »
I'm sure most of us have done something similar. Glad your okay. There are worse statistics that you could have become!
Mike

'91 GSF400
It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.

Offline Stealth

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2006, 03:11:48 PM »
apparently the 1991 toyota corolla suffered exhaust pipe, and gas tank damages.

The idiot who owns it is expecting $2000 from insurance...

most hes gonna get is $500

Offline CWO4GUNNER

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2006, 04:50:10 PM »
Well at least God gave you the wherewithal to use your mind and not panic, slow the moment down  and run through some decisions under extreme pressure. And although your ultimate decision wasn’t perfect you defiantly saved allot of skin steering away from the car and pole.
Good Job :congrats:

Offline erik

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 05:32:19 PM »
Glad to hear you're ok and with no long lasting injuries. I've heard of too many serious motorcycle crashes lately.

I think the b4 does have more of a tendancy to stand up in a corner under brakes than some bikes.

I agree with what gsxr400 racer said.

Offline Trikksta

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2006, 06:04:31 PM »
AHHHH, that sucks dude. I'm glad you escaped with only minor injuries. I hate that the cops throw in a careless driving charge just as an extra kick in the balls.

Offline interfuse

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2006, 07:45:10 PM »
Be sure to fight the careless charge. Unless the cops were actually there and saw the accident unfold it's a hard thing to prove. Maybe a dog ran out in your path? And being an animal rights activist you swerved to avoid it? LOL.

Here's a link with lots of great details about fighting traffic charges in Canada.

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=1039

You may actually want legal representation on that one...
Mike

'91 GSF400
It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.

Offline Stealth

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 12:30:14 AM »
I am definately going to fight that ticket.

1 Question though:

Is it possible to find out what the plea bargain lesser charge is? And then decide to go with plea bargain or not?

*edit*
nevermind. I already know the answer.

Offline interfuse

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 12:54:22 AM »
Quote
I am definately going to fight that ticket.

1 Question though:

Is it possible to find out what the plea bargain lesser charge is? And then decide to go with plea bargain or not?


Yes.

--copied directly from the above link be sure to read it

A first appearance is not a trial date (you shouldn't be going to trial on that day). You have a chance to speak/bargain with the prosecution about your particular charge. They will almost always offer you a plea-bargain. If you accept, you can usually accept this plea-bargain on that day, so you do not have to come back for your original trial date. You can request a first appearance by asking in person at the court house, although some will allow you to schedule one by phone.

This section may also be of some use to you

D) Fighting a careless charge
Careless charges are often laid when the officer doesn't know what charge to give, or wants to overcharge (knowing that it will be plea-bargained to a lesser offence in court). For example, if you went into a corner too fast and wiped out, if an officer arrives, they may slap you with a careless charge. As usual, the burden on the Crown is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that your actions were careless. Unless you can show that what you did was without negligence or fault on your part (either through the crown's evidence, or your own testimony), a conviction is likely. The defence of due diligence applies.

A common occurrence is for the officer to lay a careless driving charge after the fact (i.e. the officer wasn't present at the time, and only arrived after the incident). If this is the case, you are in good shape. If it was a single vehicle accident (ie: no other people involved) and there are no other witnesses, you are in excellent shape. In this case, the only evidence against you is indirect or circumstantial evidence (evidence which was not witnessed first hand, but from which logical inferences can be drawn - e.g.: you go to bed, and wake up with snow on your lawn. You now have circumstantial evidence that it snowed last night). If there is only circumstantial evidence against you, the court follows the rule in "Hodge's Case" (an old English case). This rule requires that, before the court can find the defendant guilty, it must be satisfied that the circumstantial evidence must be such as to leave no reasonable explanation but that which indicates the guilt of the accused. In plain english, when the evidence against you is purely circumstantial, you can't be found guilty if you have a reasonable excuse/explanation for what happened, and the evidence does not contradict your explanation.

An example: It is winter, and you you rear-end someone. The officer arrives at the scene, and gives you a careless driving charge. There are no witnesses, and the court did not subpoena the other driver to testify against you. When you take it to court, the only evidence against you is circumstantial (the officer's testimony - the officer arrived after the incident). You plead not-guilty, and give your testimony saying that you saw the car in front of you stop suddenly, you applied the brakes as hard as you could, but there was ice on the road, and you still ended up hitting the other car. In this case, the evidence against you is purely circumstantial, and you have offered evidence which supports a rational alternative conclusion to the careless driving charge.

Careless driving is a kind of nebulous charge - the wording in the HTA is very vague, so it is not possible to define what exactly constitutes careless driving, and what doesn't ("without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway"). Just because you have been charged with it, does not mean you are guilty. The amount of case law on careless driving charges is vast, and it should be easy to find similar cases/cases to support your situation.

An addition, from an earlier post regarding fighting a careless charge:

Even if a collision ocurrs as a result of events under the direct control of the motorist, that does not guarantee conviction. Weather can be a valid excuse for escaping convction from a careless charge.

Consider R. v. Smith (1961, 130 C.C.C. 177 (B.C. Co. Ct.)) in which the defendant was unfamiliar with the area in question. He had been driving along a poorly lighted narrow road on a dark night when he crashed into the retaining wall of a river dyke beside the road (and was charged with careless driving). The only evidence against him was the fact of the accident itself. The court held that this evidence was insufficient to support the charge, and that it was impossible to say that the mere happening of the accident gave rise to a presumption of lack of due care and attention in the circumstances.

Consider Masters ([1980] Ont. D. Crim. Conv. 5525-07 (Co.Ct.)), in which the accused emerged from an underpass, where the roadway was wet to an icy road surface. The driver lost control of the vehicle, collided with a light standard, and was charged with careless. The accused was acquitted in court.

Also consider R. v. Johnson (1983, 45 N.B.R. (2d) 371 (N.B. Q.B.) in which the accused had dropped a cigarette on the seat and, while attempting to put it out, drove on the wrong side of the road causing a collision. On appeal, the conviction was dismissed.

Another one: R. v. Hall (Unreported, October 12, 1979, Ont. Dst. Ct. - Street J.) involved a defendant who was following a woman who stopped to make a turn onto a side street. When the driver stopped, the defendant's car came into collision with her because he was unable to stop in time. At the time, the weather conditions were adverse. It was snowing and the streets were slippery. The defendant saw her vehicle when he was a long way back. He saw her turn signal and then her brake signal and tried to stop, but was unable to do so. On appeal, the Judge found that he could not be satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the defedant was driving without due care and attention as he had seen the car and stated that he saw it a long way back. He may have been driving carelessly, but it is equally possible that he had simply been unable to stop because the street was slippery and that through no fault of his own, he slid a long way. The conviction was set aside.

While it is true that "best intentions" alone are not a valid defence, attempting to carry out those "best intentions" does constitute a valid defence, provided that those "best intentions" are what a typical reasonable person would have done in the same situation. This is known as the defence of "due diligence," and it is is a valid defence to a careless driving charge (among other charges). If you can show that you did everything that a reasonable person could have been expected to do to avoid the accident, and after all that, it still happened, then you are entitled to an acquittal. Your own testimony is usually sufficient, barring any contradictory evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) - e.g.: you said you tried to stop as hard as you could, bu there were no skid marks to indicate this.

The law does not require perfection. Mistake of judgement does not necessarily constitute careless driving. Drivers are held to the stadard of what the "ordinary prudent person would do in the circumstances". This standard is always shifting, depending on road, visibility, weather, and traffic conditions that exist or may reasonably be expected. Consider this passage from R. v. Beauchamp: "The law does not require of any driver that he should exhibit 'perfect nerve and presence of mind, enabling him to do the best thing possible.' It does not expect men to be more than ordinary men."

**edit I guess you started reading the link before I could finish typing up this email.  :beers:
Mike

'91 GSF400
It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.

Offline PitterB4

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 09:38:24 AM »
Glad you're ok, man.  

Too many wrecks lately.  I lost a riding buddy yesterday in one.  Be careful out there, folks.
Rob
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Offline Stealth

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 09:40:23 AM »
When I awoke from unconciousness, the cop asked me what happend.

I said that i was on the right lane, and there were 2 cars on my left lane. and the street was turning, I saw that there was a red toyota parked so I attempted to overtake the car on my left but that didnt happen. so I braked hard and hit the curb.

Apparently they were righting all of this down. But what if I said something improperly? I was unconscious by the way.

Is this a plausible and un-contradictory story for the real events?:

I was on the right lane, the two cars were on my left lane. My vision of the road ahead to the left was blocked by the car to my left. During the turn, I saw the red toyota parked on my lane. At the same time, the car to my left slightly swerved towards me. I panicked, immediately moved to the right and held the Brakes. At this point, I lost control and hit the curb. I flew off the bike while the bike proceeded sliding towards the parked car.


If they tell me that this new story has no "attempting to overtake the car to my left" is it plausible enough to tell the judge that I had just regained consciousness when the police officer asked me, and my mind was all blurry, I didn't know what happend, I didn't know how it happend, etc.... Over time, I started to remember what exactly happend that day.

Offline Sven

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I've become a statistic :(
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 10:29:46 AM »
Assuming I understand the layout of the street, there are two lanes.  First question:  Was there really two lanes, or is the street just wide enough that you created a "right lane"?  If there really are two lanes, why was a car parked in one of the lanes...was the car parked legally or should it have been ticketed/towed?

I would definitely stop saying or posting "I was attempting to overtake (that is, "pass") a car to my left.  I would say "when I saw there was a vehicle (improperly) parked in my lane, I attempted to merge into the left lane."  This is no less true that what you've said, but it has a more positive  spin.  If anyone asks why you were trying to get ahead of another vehicle, I'll bet the answer is "Because the vehicles on the left wouldn't let me in between them."  Therefore, if asked, you can state that you were trying to merge, and to do so, you were trying to get ahead of a couple cars because they did not seem to realize your lane was blocked ahead.

Again, not suggesting you lie, but there are a million little calculations we make when riding/driving.  Sure, you can look back and say you made a bad judgement, but you have every right to present the decision you made in the best light possible.

You want to avoid sounding reckless or careless.  I would avoid saying "I panicked" and would say "By the time I realized the cars to my left were not going to let me merge, I was closer to the illegally parked car than I realized, and had to stop suddenly.  While I attempted to avoid hitting the parked car, since I was in a blind curve, my distance visibility was limited, and I was unable to stop in time.  I knew that I didn't want to get hit by a moving vehicle."

Anyway, you get the idea.  Again, not advocating you lie.  Don't paint yourself as being the most noble, put-upon motorcyclist that ever rode, but make it sound like your actions were reasonable and considered, and that it was the actions of the illegally parked car and the other drivers who forced you into a situation that you were unable to react to in time.

Good luck....
2003 Suzuki Bandit 1200S | el Bandido de Cerceta | the teal bandit
2010 Yamaha FJR1300A | Gin Tama | the silver bullet
2002 Honda CRV | the dirt-colored car