Author Topic: Intermittent Stalling (Read 7636 times)

Vidrazor · « **on:** August 08, 2005, 11:39:07 PM »

Hi folks, can't believe I found a site dedicated to the bike I got, thought it was an alien!

Anyway, I recently got a '93 GSF400. I sent it to my local bike shop here in New Jersey for a tuneup, and generally the thing is fine.

However, after riding the bike for a while, If I park for a while after that, when I restart it, the bike runs rough, like it's missing or something. It'll stall when I stop at a light. I have to jump it (my starter is on it's last leg) and rev the crap out of it to keep it going. If I can keep the bike running long enough, the symptom goes away and the bike runs normal again.

Of course, every time I bring the bike to the shop to have it checked out, it runs like a champ. The shop guys must think I'm out of my mind.

Any ideas what may be causing this? If it means anything, when I first start the bike, it'll run fine, but if I don't take off in a few minutes, it will stall and act similarly, although not as bad. Once I'm running it pretty much stabilizes. Once I'm on the road I don't have any problems with the bike.

Also, as I mentioned, my starter needs replacing or a rebuild, and I've been jumping it pretty often lately. Does this hurt the bike in any way? What's the best course of action in dealing with the starter? This is my first bike, so I'm pretty green to all this.

Thanks for any help with this.

Maniac · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2005, 12:03:24 AM »

hey Vidrazor, welcome aboard!

Yeah, tell me about it, I was the same way when I stumbled across this place. But this is -defiantly- the right place to get information on the Bandits!

Have you tried a new set of plugs?

Other than that possibility, it sounds to me like it's probally a carburation issue. Are you using choke when it's cold? The 400 is a little bit of a cold blooded animal, although in the summer you should be able to get away without it.

Hmm... it's also possible that it's not your starter thats bad, and instead you may have a bad battery. If thats the case, the reason it might be running crapilly on startup is that the charging system is working double time, shorting the coils until the battery stops drawing so much power. You should be able to pull the battery and haul it down to an Autozone for testing. If it looks old and you don't really know how old it is, I'd consider just putting a new one in. Should cost less than $60 for one, and it's good piece of mind.

Vidrazor · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2005, 12:36:37 AM »

Thanks for your reply. The battery is new. The bike was tuned up with new plugs and fluids. Does this bike have a fuel filter? Maybe it needs a replacement.

I don't need to use the choke for now. Starts up fine the first time. So far I'm still getting the first start of the day off the starter, but I have to give it throttle now. Before I just pushed the button and off it went.

The guys at the shop told me the starter was weak and may not last through the winter. Well, it's not lasting through the summer! Some guy on ebay has a starter from a '91 model for 40 bucks, I would imagine that would fit on my '93. No guarantee it'll be any better, tho.

gsxr400 racer · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2005, 04:02:56 PM »

i have lots O starters!

southernyankee · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2005, 06:01:55 PM »

Be carefull on jump starting your bike everytime, cause you can burn out your cdi. I did!! So if you need a new battery and/or a new starter get it before you have to buy a $550 cdi or have to try and repair it.

Good Luck,
Jon

benallenuk · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2005, 06:46:04 PM »

Hi, Ive had a 2 GSF 400's, the first, a 1991 (slingshot) had a problem where it would get really hot, the temp sender wasnt working so the fan never came on. The bike would just die, it seemed like it was fuel starvation, but after numerious checks of fuel filters etc, I found out that the fuel was just getting too hot and turned to vapour before it reached the engine. If I left the bike for 10 minutes or so, it was fine.

My new bandit, a 1995 GSF 400 v/vs, was a complete bitch to start, plus would die at traffic lights etc. It turned out that the rubber vaccume tube from the carbs to the tank had a small split in it where it bent at a angle when the tank was refitted. I only noticed it by accident, after I replace the tube, the bike ran like a dream. Also check the rubber vaccume cap on top of each separate carb, also check the VERY small o-ring hasnt been lost out of the top of each carb.

Hope you get the problem sorted mate.

Cheers

Ben

todius · « **Reply #6 on:** August 09, 2005, 06:48:42 PM »

From your symptons, I don't see anything to indicate that the starter is bad. If you can jump start the bike off another battery/car/bike, this would likely be an indication that the Battery is low, not a problem with the starter. Since the battery is new, this would lead me to belive you have a charging issue.

From the sounds of it, I'd first suspect the regulator/rectifier. If you have or can get your hands on a voltmeter. Measure the voltage on the battery before you start the bike. It should be around 12-13V. After starting the bike, rev it up and down to 5k or so and watch the voltage. It should stay between 13.0 and 14.8V. If the voltage goes over 15V at any point, your regulator is not working properly. (there are several things to check at this point). If the voltage on the battery never comes above 13V, you have a different charging issue. Possibly a stator, a fuse, or wiring.

It's possible you have either of the two problems above. If the voltage is too high, it screws up (and can damage) your CDI box which causes your bike to miss and run rough. When the voltage is too low, the CDI box again will not function properly and won't be able to put out "enough" spark.

(BTW a cheap voltmeter will work and is handy to have .. they can be had for less than $20. Harbor Freight sells a cheapo Centech for less than $5 which would do the trick)

* If your high beam burns out often, your reg/rectifier is likely faulty.

Carbs are another possible cause of these symptons as well as tight valves. I know on the Ninja250, when the valves get tight, you'll have a very hard time starting the bike when it's hot and it will run rough for a while if you do get it started.

benallenuk · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2005, 06:52:54 PM »

Oh, also check the battery voltage. I had a YAMAHA FZR 400 that had a phucked regulator/rectifier unit. The battery wasnt charging so when the battery voltgage went low, the bike would just die, not nice on the outside lane at 100mph. It was like having an electric bike, charge the battery and it would run fine for 10-15 miles or so. Strange

Ben

dpgasser · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2005, 10:51:46 PM »

Quote

From your symptons, I don't see anything to indicate that the starter is bad. If you can jump start the bike off another battery/car/bike, this would likely be an indication that the Battery is low, not a problem with the starter. Since the battery is new, this would lead me to belive you have a charging issue.

Maybe he means "bump" start, not "jump" start?

Vidrazor · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2005, 11:34:07 AM »

Thanks for all your replies. Yes, I meant to "jump it" by rolling it and dumping the clutch. I suppose that means to "bump it"? Will that hurt the bike in any way?

Well, I checked the voltages as per todius suggestion. The batttery was reading 11 volts before I started the bike. Once running, it read 13 volts. I rev it up to about 6k and it stayed pretty much at 13 volts.

Riding it later on I rather quickly brought the bike up to around 8-9k and I noticed the headlight got brighter. Don't know if that means anything or if that's normal.

I'm lately getting just ever enough crank from the starter to start with a little throttle. The jury's out for me whether it is the starter or something else. Any suggestions?

Also, I'd like to know about this CDI. Is this what is also referred to as the "black box", or are they two different items? Is the ignition system based around the rectifier, CDI, and black box, or just rectifier and black box? What does CDI stand for anyway?

Needless to say, I need to learn more about this stuff. I'm ordering the '400's service manual from repairmanual.com, but I'd like some reading suggestions for better understanding of ignition systems and general motorcycle maintenence and repair.

Thanks again everyone.

gsxr400 racer · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2005, 01:07:07 PM »

I think its capacitor discharge ignition also known as black box! bump starting is okay , jump starting should never happen with a running car , car off to jump start !

Maniac · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2005, 03:09:47 PM »

CDI is Capacitor Discharge Ignition.... which we don't have

We do, however, have a Digital Igniter which a lot of people call a CDI. It's basically a little computer that handles timing advance and tells the coils when to fire based on the single pickup. You'll find it under the pillon seat

Quote from: "Vidrazor"

Thanks for all your replies. Yes, I meant to "jump it" by rolling it and dumping the clutch. I suppose that means to "bump it"? Will that hurt the bike in any way?

Only if you drop it!

gsxr400 racer · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2005, 03:11:08 PM »

Thanks for clarifying that for me Sir!

stormi · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2005, 03:29:06 PM »

Quote from: "Vidrazor"

I'm lately getting just ever enough crank from the starter to start with a little throttle.

more to todius' post,

there's a fault finding flowchart here for the charging system. It might help you find the problem. I had a similar ( but not totally the same) problem, and it turned out to be a loose wire.

http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=2174

This seems to me a little like a charging issue. I used to have the same problem with my Firebird (let me tell you, when you're 110lbs and having to push start a firebird, it's not a lot of fun. Luckily I'm a bit heavier now, and have only 400lbs to push if I mess up with the bike.), and also a similar one with my b4.

One turned out to be an alternator bracket that was bent and messing up alternators, and the bike was a loose wire between the rectifier and the battery. That link above might point you to your problem.

My problem was that I would have enough power (barely) to start the bike once. If it didn't catch ( choke was seized so not helping) then that was it, I had to put it back on the charger, or bump start it. When the bike was running, it wasn't charging the battery consistently, so I would be back to square one with the start the next morning. ( or the next time I started it.)

Be careful too,.. abuse of a battery voids the warranty. What you're going through right now can damage the battery. I lost mine two weeks after we finally got this sorted out on mine. I don't think that was coincidence.

PitterB4 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 15, 2005, 11:43:43 PM »

Any updates, Vid?

It may be a coil, too. I just went through that. What lead me to the coil was that when it would start to die, it sounded like a very weak twin - I now know why they didn't make a Bandit 200! Also, my tach got all funky jumping all over the place when it acted up. Swapped out the right coil and.... VROOM!

Good luck!