Chain Adjustment

[echomadman]

whenever i adjust my chain to recommended tightness, it makes horrible noises during decelleration and souds like its rubbing off the frame, does this happen to anyone else, i has about 3 or 4 cm of vertical play now and makes no scary noises, but is obviously a bit loose.
This chain buffer/slider thing: doesnt seem to be attached to the swingarm anymore, so i initially thought it was this but even when i hold it in place and rotate the wheel in neutral i can hear the noise.

Anyone got an idea? i'm sure its something painfully obvious.

mine does this too with a new chain, It goes away once the chain wears a new groove in the guide. You should only have around 25mm of play in the chain.

yup, just make sure everything is aligned right and keep it lubed and clean.  plus during decel, you don't have the exhaust noise,  and you get more tension on the chain when not cruising a steady pace.  

You can always measure the distance between the wheel and the swingarm to make sure the adjustment alignment is right, as well as measuring the marks tnhe chain makes in the gaurd compared to front and back to make sure its aligned and mounted right...  Other than that, just clean and lube, put a couple hundred miles on her, and make sure the wear marks are even.

Good luck, just trying to help,
Mike
 :msm:

[echomadman]

i'm sure its something painfully obvious.

and so it was.
cheers lads

Ed my chain used to make all that grinding noise...fairly embarassing riding slow around traffic with peds lookin at you thinking you've a duff bike....lol....maybe i do! Having it loose seemed to clear it too...but that can't be a good idea.
Haven't ran the new chain yet so can't be sure....one thing i do know is my front sprocket shaft is worn and the sprocket tends to rock back and forwards on it slightly....Im sure this would be a noisy thing!

Did you solve yours with lube?

Lube isnt the answer to everything james :p

No i was scared of the noise so i slackened off the chain, i'll retighten it tomorrow after i put on my new brake disk, although i think i may need a whole new rear caliper, mine seems to be welded completely solid, the rods that hold the pads in have resisted all attempts at removal, and only the greatest feat of self control has stopped me from taking my revenge on it with an angle grinder.
I'll call into the theiving swine in the ennis bike shop tomorrow and see if they have an impact wrench they'll charge me through the nose to use for a few minutes.

 

I think tool rental shops will do a impact driver, may be cheaper than a rip off dealer.  But. you may already know somebody at the dealership.  Also, you might wanna  consider buying one of the cheaper impact drivers.  I have one, it's not near as good as the air compressed version, but it works usually.  I'll try to find a pic on the net for you.  basically it's nothing but a 3/8" drive that you can hit with a hammer, and it twists counterclockwise each time you hit it.

Good luck, it never occurred to me you could be hearing brake noise too,

Mike

[echomadman]

It definitely wasnt my brakes, as the rear caliper has been off the bike for 2 weeks now soaking in wd40, emerging occasionally to break my spanners and cheap sockets and laugh at my feeble attmpts to disassemble it.

I think i know the impact wrenches you're talking about Mike, i havent used one since metalwork class in school, i'd forgotten all about them.
I'l peruse the local hardware shops tomorrow as i'll invariably need it again. I dont think the last owner of the bike ever took anything apart for maintenance, relying instead on the guys in the shop to do it for her (which they clearly didnt)

  ah  HA!   I remembered where I bought it, JC Whitney ! $14
Clicky!

HAND IMPACT DRIVER AND BIT ONLY SETS

    * Loosens frozen screws, nuts and bolts that can't be turned with screwdrivers or wrenches.
    * Choose from 16-pc. Complete set or 13-pc. extra bit set.
          o Reversible feature permits tightening.
          o No air or electric power needed.

    * A must for those "impossible" jobs like striker plates, motorcycle engine cases, body panels, etc. Easy to use?just attach bit to impact tool and pound with your hammer. Won't strip or damage threads. sets.

Here's a pic of mine, I had one I beat to death on dirt bikes, this one  is only about three yrs old and has only been hit with a big rubber mallet - that way it stops thhe breakage of parts underneath the frozen nut/bolt/screw.

[echomadman]

Those rods are just straight metal bars aren't they...with a split pin holding them in!....Do you have a vice grips and a hammer?

Or alternatively put it in the freezer overnight(or indeed for a few nights!) and see if it loosens up!

...so you runnin your bike around without a rear brake ed?

I've tried vice grips, pliers, a hammer, screwdrivers, my dremel, a blowtorch followed by a spray of wd40, yeling, screaming, crying and spitting on it, but not freezing it, i'll try that tonight, as no hardware shop in town had an impact wrench, most didnt even know what i was asking for, the one that did tried to sell me a 130 euro compressor+jack+wrench gun set.


wrt to no back brakes, for all intents and purposes i've had none on the bike ever, the original disk was warped whe i bought it (alas i didnt figure this out till after i paid for it), resulting in a pulsing feeing when the brakes are applied, which led to locking up the back wheel very easily. so i never used it. just now that the roads are getting greasier and colder, front wheel brakeing at low speed is no fun so i went out and bought the sundry pieces, new pads & disk, only to find that my calipers are in pretty bad condition.
the joys of owning a 14 year old bike in a miserable rainy country.

Wow echomadman, you are haviing a hell of time, huh!  If you've tried alll that, I doubt that impact driver ould work anyway without breaking something.  Though, if you've waited this long it may be worth the effort and $14 +shipping to grab one from JC whitney, my old one took some pretty tough crap out of my dirt bikes and three wheeler ATV ( man that thing was old).  When I had the abused Honda 185 that had seen too many mud and creek runs., some of the screws and bolts were stripped and rusted in place, and that little tool seemed to break it free after pounding the crap out of it.
Anyway just thought I'd put .02 in here.


Another possibility with freezing, and you probably already know this with your metal shop experience, I'm just posting so others may read who may not have metal experience.

Here goes a little science: The metal molecular structure speeds up with heat and slows down with cold.  This helps us figure out how unstick or free up pretty much anything associated with metal.  It's why we can bend metal easily when heated to a certain temp , eventhough it seems strong at room temp.  Just as it will be brittle when frozen below a certan temp, but feel very stiff.  It why we can unscrew a stuck jar lid when we run hot water over the lid, the molecules speed up and become "loose".  Kinda makes sense...

So I'm thinking, and I may be wrong.  If the entire part is frozen, the entire part will be brittle, in other words  the molecules in the metal will still be at a constant speed - just slower., so it may break more easily even it does come free.

BUT, if we can somehow heat the binding part and freeze the removable part cold, in essence it will ease the removal.  the binding molecules will speed up and the removable part molecules will slow down - weakening the joint or contact point.

So I'm thinking if you can get your hands on some freeze-it or freon spray, try hitting the pin with freon and keep the surrounding area as warm as possible, then when you think you have the temps good, whack away and see if it breaks free.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to help, and maybe others will find the mocecular metal info interesting- or hell they may even think I'm a geek, but I don't care.

Just thoght I' throw some info in at the end, I'll shut up now,
Mike
:)

[echomadman]

If you can get the caliper off the bike, try heating it up in an oven on low (~150*F). Since the caliper is made of aluminum and the pins steel, the caliper will expand more than the pins will.  And if you can come up with a can of freezing agent to direct on the pins, it will make it even loser.

SAFETY NOTES
Drain the brake fluid before putting it in the oven.
Handle the hot caliper with gloves that can take it or an oven mit.

Yeah my little 1990 model makes that damn noise too but I've been more paranoid about it lately because the damn bike is snapping joining links on me! I'm running the RK520SO supposedly the heaviest duty one I can get, it's happened twice in about 6 months, the chains are new ( got scared the first time and got a new chain, was only 3 months old anyway ) and this is a new chian, always adjusted correctly and very well lubed, never any damage to the bike, no rubbing or hitting on anything, addmitedly it has happened after I've cranked the old girl but it's not like she's putting out Hyabusa  :evilone:  style torque, it should be able to take it. Has this happened to anyone else? My links have snapped across the back where it should be strongest. Also what kind of mileage should ya get out of a chain on the 250? I've done 38000k in bout 15 months and changed the chain twice.
And how much work has your bandits done? Mines about to tick over 70k.

Wrt the freezing and heating.....would putting the caliper in an oven like that damage the seals etc?
Putting it in a freezer shouldn't make it so brittle that it'll break....but might just contract it enough that it'll crack some of the corrosion holding it in place.
We use liquid nitrogen to put these fairly large bolts into the rotor head linkages on the heli....they contract a small bit and you still have to use a lump hammer and impact driver to get them in. So they don't go T2 brittle or anything! If we haven't nitrogen on hand we leave them in the freezer overnight...seems to work just as well and hasn't the hazardous effects of liquid nitrogen.

Ed you can get freon spray type stuff in electronics shop...which you working in an internet cafe with computers prob know anyway...but there ya go!

The other thing you can do is cut the little f'ers out and get some machined up for you for a few pence.....even a similar sized bolt with a hole drilled horizontally in it will do the trick!

I replaced the split pins with some locking wire....its much easier to remove and re-install without needing tools should you need to for some reason!

[echomadman]

150*F shouldn't be hot enough to damage seals.
Your brakes' seals are designed tol see temps much hotter than that!

ah...degrees f.......read it wrong..lol

well, i got the calipers apart last night...
never having taken one apart before i'm not 100% on this, but those pistons should move yes  :)
the whole damn thing is siezed solid, the pins the pads are on are still welded into one half of the caliper, the seal on one side had hole in it, and its safe to assume i didnt do it as there seems to be a few years worth of road grit and general brake crap in there.
So ed's question of the week, what do i need to fix them, new pistons/seals or entirely new calipers?

to clarify what i've just tried to explain, here's a little picture

Given the conditions of things as you've stated, I think I'd try to source a different caliper and make life a lot easier on myself. Besides, since the pistons are stuck and one seal is toast, the corrosion is probably going to be so bad that saving it would be a major task... and since we aren't talking about a 100 point concours antique restoration project here, there's no need to try to overhaul the piece that was originally put on the bike at the factory.

Time to take it down to the breakers and see what other bikes use the same caliper and pick the nicest one you can. Remember, brake parts are outsourced by all makers, so don't just look at Suzukis.

Ed,
Firtstly*
city spares in dublin will have a caliper if thats what you need.

secondly*
fixing your current caliper can't be that difficult....I imagine it is for you right now cos you don't have a garage to work in....can i put you in touch with my mate Dave in Ennis and you can ask him for help?  Mail offlist etc!

thirdly*
If/when Dave fixes it you'll need a set of piston seals and a set of dust seals...both easily come by .....give a shop your piston dimensions and actually show them the caliper.

Fourthly*
A load of the guys on the motorcycle-ireland forum are in limerick and seem to know their stuff....post there too and im sure someone can help ya out on the cheap.

fifthly*
If its a thing you do get a new caliper can i have your current one as a project...?

sixthly*
Welcome to B250 jobs that need doing....!!!

[gsxr400 racer]

heres a bit of info you know the chain guid on the front of the swinger if you can touch a link flat on the furthest part of it on the bottum then your chain is lose enough for your bike this goes with all bikes!