Yay!...ish

[Coopz]

Yay!!

I'm sure you will all be glad to hear that I finally got my little bandit back on the road! Woohoo!!

I got it back just under 3 weeks ago, but have been too busy out riding it to make a post announcing it's return. So I have finally gotten round to it now!

It's so good to have it back! Freedom, independance, speed, it's all awesome. I destroyed a subaru imprezza on the country roads, and almost managed to keep up with my mates who were on a Triumph Daytona 955i, a GSXR 750, and an Aprilla RSV Mille 1000cc. After 15 miles, I was only 1 minute behind the two litre bikes, and about 30 seconds behind the gsxr. Not bad for a naked(ish) 400!

In honour of it's return, I have it a thorough cleaning (even the wheels and sprocket!!), took a load of pics, and made this, to show it off:



(I made a video about my bandit when the engine blew up, if you're interested it's at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW2zApZaqEc)

It was quite expensive to get it all sorted out, but worth it (I think!)

Engine: £200
-Delivery: £50
Engine Fitment: £200 (Very problematic, thus expensive)
CDI unit repair: £111

(Also a new rear tyre, £105, and an MOT, £28)

It cost me almost as much as the bike did to start with, but I'd rather get it fixed than sell it on as scrap. I'll make my money back when I come to sell it.

There is one small problem though.
It drinks engine oil almost as fast as it drinks petrol. If only it was as cheap as petrol, I wouldn't mind so much, but at £10 per litre (fully synthetic) I grudge having to put another litre in it every week. When I picked the bike up from the mechanic, the engine oil was full. 7 days later, I couldn't even see any oil in the viewing window.  So, i bought a litre and poured it in, bringing the level up to near perfect. 6 days later, same story. And now, 4 days after that, I had to put in about 600ml of oil to bring the level back into the vieing window.

There are no big leaks (I would have noticed 3 litres of oil pouring out!) so I just assumed that it was settling in as the engine had been rebuilt and the oil would need to circulate properly and get into all the spaces. But I have now put in more oil than the engine holds. I got concerned and phoned the mechanic to see what he thought.

First off he said it is burning oil and would probably need new pistons and gaskets, and wasn't worth it. I agree that it must be burning oil, as the exhaust has been quite smokey since I got it back (white with a tiny blue tinge), and there is nowhere else it could be going! But then he said that I should just keep topping up the oil and keeping an eye on it, and that it may slowly sort itself out. He said it's possible that before I got the engine, it may have been sitting for a few years, and so the barrels might have glazed (or something like that.) So he told me to carry on using it, topping up the oil, and thrashing it about at my usual top speeds, and that could possibly slowly sort out my problem, kind of like breaking it in again. He reckons there is a good possibility that it is just a glazed barrel or something, and that it should just sort itself out, so I am going to do what he suggests and see if it gets any better.

But I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts/ideas about it. Is it a good idea to keep using/thrashing it? Do you think it's possible that it may sort itself out? Any suggestions as to what else might be the problem, and if so, what to do about it?


Sorry for the long post, but I had a lot to say! lol

[yoda]

bike looks cool, what fairing is that? looks like a "dash" one from M&P. did it go through the MOT? black is best, if i cleaned mine it'd look the same!

[PitterB4]

Lookin' great, Coop!  Good luck with the oil thing!

[stormi]

Congrats on getting her running!

K,.. so you're losing faster and faster?  Or about the same?  How's your coolant look?  Milky at all?   If you're topping up that much, you're definitely losing somewhere.  If it's not on the ground, you really need to figure out where.  How does the oil look?  Milky? BUT,.. you may be losing more than you think to the ground if you have any leaks.

How blue is blue for the exhaust?  Only when you get on the gas, or only when you start it up, or always?  When you say "quite smoky",.. this means a -lot- of white smoke, tinged with blue?  How's your head gasket?

You say there are no "big" leaks... are there smaller ones?  As your oil gets hot, it gets thinner.  And especially because you're using synthetic on an engine that may have never had synthetic in it.  You could be losing more than you think while riding.  Anything on the back tire?

Consider chaning to a non-synthetic for the time being and see if it helps?  What weight of oil are you using?  

When we rebuilt the top end on Dita, she did -not- go through oil like this.  we filled her, let her burp, then topped her up.  That was it.   (Of course she got 3 oil changes in a week, so that we could "rinse" out any metal filings from the work that was done inside her, so we did the "fill, burp, top" thing a few times..)  

It may be different if you were to split the cases and do the bottom end, but if you've lost more than the bike can hold by now, there's something else wrong.

When we did the break in on Dita after the rebuild, we did NOT thrash her.  We did about 300 kms ( 200 miles)  of varied speed riding, and pretty much followed the recommended  break in procedure.  I, personally, would not thrash it while it's sick.

[albertinhouston]

I think your bike would look great with some gsxr 1000 gold forks up front. I'm not saying your bike looks bad now I like it.

[Coopz]

GRRRR. I hate my laptop. I had just made an enormous reply, and was almost finished it, when my computer froze completely and I had to restart it, and lost everything I had wrote. GRRR!

Anyway... Yes, the fairing is the one from m&p, allthough I bought mine from somewhere else last year and paid £20 more for it!
I had to install a sidelight into the fairing before I took it for an MOT, but it did pass.


I'd written so much in repy to everything Stormi said, but it's all gone. :'-(
This is basically what I had said.

Oil colour is fine, coolant level is fine but never noticed the colour, will check it again. What would it mean if it was milky??

It seems to be going through oil at the same rate, allthough it is taking slightly less to fill it ever time I top it up. But this may be because I am topping it up more frequently. I'm going to start recording how much oil it takes, and how many miles I have done, and see if there is a trend. The weight of the oil? I assume this is what the letters and numbers on the front of the bottle are reffering to? 1st time I used some stuff with "SAE 10W-40" on the front, don't know what was written on the second bottle, and the third bottle has "5W-30" written on it.
Do you think I should start using mineral oil? What kind of oil is reccommended for the bandit 400?

Exhaust smoke - smokes for a while when I start it, gets worse if the choke is on. Gets worse whilst revving it. Clears up after a while, but according to the guy behind me one day it got worse when I pulled away from a junction, and when I dropped a gear and floored it to pass cars. He said it smelled a bit too, but I don't know if that is normal. I gave it a sniff and I don't think it smells quite right. It is pretty much completely white, but with possibly the most tiny un-noticeable blue tinge about it.

I think there are 1 or 2 tiny leaks, but this is definately not where all the oil is going. The top of the engine at the front, just behind the radiator, is always greasy. I cleaned it one day, but it was oily again by the next day. I think one of the four round black things in a row may be letting some oil leak uut. It's not much though, just the tiniest bit. No other noticeable leaks, no oil ever sitting in bellypan or on back tyre, and the rest of the engine casing seems clean.

I don't know how the head gasket is, but the mechanic would have mentioned it if it was dodgy, so I guess it's okay.

When I first picked it up after it got fixed, I took it for a 60 mile cruise at easy speeds and easy revs (max speed 80mph, between 4000 and 900 rpm.) Then took it back to the mechanics and we checked the coolant, checked engine for leaks, and topped up the oil. Then he said to just ride it like I normally do (he knwos how I ride). I'd say I've probably done at least 500 miles on it since I got it back.

I am a bit afraid to thrash it, feeling a bit uncomfortabe at high speeds as I know there is some unknown problem with the engine. But the mechanic thinks it could be glazed barrells, and he said to keep thrashing it, and told me not to drive like an old woman, and it might sort itself out. I think if I don't thrash it, it won't  get sorted, as thrashing it will help clean the barrells. He knows more than me about the engine, and I doubt he'd say anything to put me or the engine at risk. But i still feel uncomfortable when I'm going at high speeds. He's assured me that as long as there is fresh oil in the engine, it wont explode, but I still worry. But I dont want to drive it slowly becaue it's boring, and the barrells won't get cleaned (If that's what the problem is.)


I feel like I've missed something out, but can't think of anything else to tell you. I think I answered eevrything you asked, so if you can suggest anything it would be much appreciated.

Cheers!

[r_outsider]

Are you using motorcycle oil in that thing? Almost any type of motorcycle oil will do nicely, but not automotive oil. I've heard of people using Shell Rotella diesel engine oil, but for the purposes of this conversation, just go find 10w40 motorcycle oil. Automotive oils have additives in it that don't work with bikes. Also, don't use synthetic oil in a motorcycle, especially if it's a new engine. It's bad for clutches and impedes the engines break-in. So save your money!
I don't know if this is going to fix your problems entirely, but it's a start.

[stormi]

Oil colour is fine, coolant level is fine but never noticed the colour, will check it again. What would it mean if it was milky??

Same thing as milky oil.  Contamination from the mixture of oil and antifreeze.  It's hard to tell the color without pulling the cap.

It seems to be going through oil at the same rate, allthough it is taking slightly less to fill it ever time I top it up. But this may be because I am topping it up more frequently. I'm going to start recording how much oil it takes, and how many miles I have done, and see if there is a trend.

This would be a very good idea.

The weight of the oil? I assume this is what the letters and numbers on the front of the bottle are reffering to? 1st time I used some stuff with "SAE 10W-40" on the front, don't know what was written on the second bottle, and the third bottle has "5W-30" written on it.
Do you think I should start using mineral oil? What kind of oil is reccommended for the bandit 400?

Coopz, do you have a copy of the Owner's manual? If not, go to the members only forum, and find the link to where it's hosted.  It's a scan of my manual.  On page 69 (page 36 of the PDF) it states:  Using a premium four stroke motor oil will increase the service life of your motorcycle.  Use only oils which are rated SE or SF under the API classification system.  The viscosity rating should be SAE 10W-40.  If an SAE 10W-40 motor oil is not available select an alternative according to the chart below."  

Then it shows some options.  Do NOT use mineral Oil, and if you notice, it mentions 4 stroke oil specifically.  This is not the same as automotive oil.  As r_outsider mentions ( my other half as it may be) automotive oils have additives that are hard on your clutch plates, etc.  In a car, your motor does not share oil with the clutch and transmission.  On a motorcycle it does.  Therefore, with the motorcycle, you need to cater to the most delicate part.  Automotive oils won't do this.  

What he mentions about the synthetic oil is good too.  It's more money out of your pocket, for no help, and posibly to your detriment.  Synthetic oil will often find it's way out of places that a regular oil won't.   There are synthetic motorcycle oils, but seriously?  you don't need that at this point.

Exhaust smoke - smokes for a while when I start it, gets worse if the choke is on. Gets worse whilst revving it. Clears up after a while, but according to the guy behind me one day it got worse when I pulled away from a junction, and when I dropped a gear and floored it to pass cars. He said it smelled a bit too, but I don't know if that is normal. I gave it a sniff and I don't think it smells quite right. It is pretty much completely white, but with possibly the most tiny un-noticeable blue tinge about it.

You know,.. that seems normal.  The exhaust amount should increase in all of the cases that you're mentioning.   LIkely the "smell" that you're noticing is a rich condition.  I find that the Bandit, if not jetted, tends to run rich.  Is there any smell other than fuel?  Antifreeze is generally sweet smelling.  So that would tip you off...   If the blue tinge is barely noticable, it's likely not too much of an issue.   It could be a valve seal letting a little oil by.  It could also be a tiny bit of oil getting past the rings, but if it's barely noticeable, I lean toward the former rather than the latter.  (Of course, it doesn't hurt for you to find out if the mechanic looked at a lot of that.  For instance,.. did he tear down anything when they put the new engine in?  Valves?  Rings? Pistons?  Could he still see the honing cross hatch on the cylinders?)

Now,.. the lack of blue all the time sort of  places in question (in my mind) the glazing that he's mentioned.  Here's why:  Glazing would potentially allow oil past the rings into the combustion chamber.  This oil would exit the engine into the exhaust, and out of the bike.  Is there any "spooge" on the end of the can? (lol! here's where my dirtbiking comes in.)  Spooge is a mixture of oil and other exhaust "treats" coming from the combustion chamber.  This is "normal" on a 2 stroke engine, because you mix oil into the gas for a two stroke.  If the end of the can is a little oily, this may indicate more oil coming out of the  combustion chamber.

I think there are 1 or 2 tiny leaks, but this is definately not where all the oil is going. The top of the engine at the front, just behind the radiator, is always greasy. I cleaned it one day, but it was oily again by the next day. I think one of the four round black things in a row may be letting some oil leak uut. It's not much though, just the tiniest bit. No other noticeable leaks, no oil ever sitting in bellypan or on back tyre, and the rest of the engine casing seems clean.

Is the oil coming from the valve cover ( the large piece) or the breather cover ( the small piece above it)?  I'm thinking breather,.. am I right?  That is fixable with a  couple of o rings and a little liquid gasket on the existing gasket. That could be the source of some of your oil loss.  Not the leak itself,... but... have you looked at your air filter?  And more importantly inside the air box?   Any oil in there?  

Ok,.. the four black things in a row,.. you're referring to the intake pipes,.. where the carbs attach to the engine?  There should never be oil coming out of those.  You either have a leak behind them (coming from the engine somewhere), or you have oil being cycled through your carbs.  That's going to be hell to pay down the road if that's the case.  If it's the latter problem, the oil will likely be coming from the airbox ( under the wire mesh that your air filter sits on top of)

I don't know how the head gasket is, but the mechanic would have mentioned it if it was dodgy, so I guess it's okay.

I would hope that he would, but that would depend on him having run it and seen the problem.  Did he?

When I first picked it up after it got fixed, I took it for a 60 mile cruise at easy speeds and easy revs (max speed 80mph, between 4000 and 900 rpm.) Then took it back to the mechanics and we checked the coolant, checked engine for leaks, and topped up the oil. Then he said to just ride it like I normally do (he knwos how I ride). I'd say I've probably done at least 500 miles on it since I got it back.

He had no concerns about it at that time?

I am a bit afraid to thrash it, feeling a bit uncomfortabe at high speeds as I know there is some unknown problem with the engine. But the mechanic thinks it could be glazed barrells, and he said to keep thrashing it, and told me not to drive like an old woman, and it might sort itself out. I think if I don't thrash it, it won't  get sorted, as thrashing it will help clean the barrells. He knows more than me about the engine, and I doubt he'd say anything to put me or the engine at risk. But i still feel uncomfortable when I'm going at high speeds. He's assured me that as long as there is fresh oil in the engine, it wont explode, but I still worry. But I dont want to drive it slowly becaue it's boring, and the barrells won't get cleaned (If that's what the problem is.)

I would go easy on it til you find out what the problem is.  I would think that the higher the RPMs, the faster you can do damage.  Check out those things that I mentioned, and we'll see if we can't get to the bottom of this.  

I feel like I've missed something out, but can't think of anything else to tell you. I think I answered eevrything you asked, so if you can suggest anything it would be much appreciated.

No, you did well.  This info and the answers to the next set of questions should go a long way to finding the problem.

I don't recall,.. I think I recall something about the mechanic having some problems with the engine before.   What was the solution to this problem.

Most, if not all, of these things that I mentioned can be checked by you, to save you the money.  A little patience, and some time can get you answers to all of this. Probably even the repairs.

[stormi]

Hey,... here's a question for some of the guys in the list.  

What if,.. when the mechanic was toying with the valves on the engine, he neglected to tighten one of the "oil feeder" pipes by the valves, or pinched it, and it sprung a leak.  If this was loose,.. it would spew oil into the cylinder head area.  The breather would end up taking a lot of this into the airbox.  That would be a great place to store 3 litres of oil without obviously tossing it on the ground or into the coolant...

but is this theory too far fetched?

For those who've never seen the inside of the B4, the feeder pipes I'm referring to are the little "tubes" on either side of the cam chain in this pic:

[Coopz]

Yes, I am using motorcycle oil in it. Today I got some more 10W-40 which is specifically for motorcycles and isn't synthetic. I topped it up to the F line and am gong to top it up after 100 miles and see how much it takes, and note it down. After 44 miles it had gone down a few millimeters, but is still well above the low marker on the viewing window.

I emptied out a load of coolant today to top it up with antifreeze and get ready for winter, and it looked fine, not milky at all.

What you mention about the smell of the exhaust fumes possibly being down to running rich, that could be true. I remember Peter (mechanic) saying at some point a while ago that the carbs had been jetted perfectly, but I think he was talking about my other bike (2 stroke dirt bike) So the carbs on the Bandit may indeed be needing jetted properly. It doesn't have a sweet smell, so it's not antifreeze. I guess you're probably right and that it is normal.

I do know that when we were having problems getting it to run, Peter took the engine apart and one of the things he did was to take out the valves and clean them and put them back in. So maybe what you said about a valve seal being loose could be true. I don't know if he could still see the honing cross hatch on the cylinders, but I will ask him and see if he could.

I made him explain to me today exactly what he meant about the glazing, and he pretty much said what you said. He said that as the previous owner was a woman, it may only have been used very gently, and infrequently, and so the piston rings may have become polished, and may be letting oil leak through and get burnt. This is why he suggested riding it hard, to try and persuade the rings to bed in the way they should have originally, and stop the oil leaking through and getting burnt. But what you said makes sense, if this was happening, I should be getting spooge. And the exhaust smoke should clearly show that it's burning oil, but it seems pretty much normal. And there isn't any spooge on the end of the can either. There is a lot of black carbon, (I cleaned it, but the next day it was black again) but this is normal. It isn't oily at all. So if theres no spooge, and no oily smoke, it must not be glazed, it must be something else. I'm with you on that one, what you said does add up and make sense.

The small oil leak I reffered to, I messed up. There are 3 black round things, not four. I'm not sure which part it is, but apparently they are just the bolts or whatever that hold the engine casing on. There is 1 on each side, and 1 on the sligjtly raised part in the middle. It appeared to be the one on the right that was leaking, but I tightened it. I'll keep an eye on it and see how it goes. It's not coming from the carbs or intake pipes, don't worry.

I've not looked at my airbox or airfilter, but I will do that ASAP. If the breather is the bit that was leaking a little, what you said about the breather also letting the oil drain into the airbox may be true. Especially since Peter took all the valves out and cleaned them, maybe he did pinch the oil feeder hose, so the oil could be spewing into the head gasket and being sucked into te airbox. This would explain why there is a little oil seeping out of the breather cover (if that's what it is). This makes sense, and I think you could be onto something. I will check the airbox and airfilter ASAP (can't do it now, it's 1:10am. lol)

I will double check with him about the head gasket, and see what he has to say about it.

He didn't have any concerns about it when I went and picked it up. I messed up a bit in my last post (again! lol). We topped up the coolant (there had been air bubbles in it, so me riding it forced the bubbles out and so the coolant needed topped up. But we didn't top up the oil, I know I said we did, but I was just confusing myself, lol. We checked it, and the level was ok, so we were happy.

I have been thrashing it so far, as I thought that would fix the problem, but in light of this new information, I guess the problem isn't what i thought it was. Thrashing it hasn't caused a problem yet, but untill I know for sure what the problem is, and get it sorted, I will take it a bit easier.

The problems the mechanic had before weren't really with the engine. It turned out to be the CDI unit, so once we got that repaired, the problem was sorted. It did take a bit of persuasion to get the engine to start after we fitted the repaired CDI unit, but after towing it for 2 miles, it finally got enough heat into the engine and bump started. It started every time after that, as the engine had been run and things had been moving and oil had been circulating etc. Peter said today that this, as well as the oil consumption problem, could have been down to the glazed barrells, as the glazed barrells would have caused it to have problems starting.


Thankfully, my mechanic and I are pretty good friends, due to me being over there so often! lol. He knows I am interested in learning these things, so if I take my bike over for a little job to be done, we will work on it together and he wont charge me for it! So allthough I don't (yet) know how to do things (like checking the airbox and filter) if I take it over we will be able to work on it together, and I won't have to spend an arm and a leg getting all these simple things done. He's a really good helpful guy, Peter.


I know you are questioning wether your theory of the oil ending up in the airbox is far fetched, but I think it makes sense. How else could I lose 3 litres of oil without it leaking out onto the ground, or being blown out of the exhaust? If the airbox has a capacity to hold that much oil, maybe that's where it is going. The small leak from what may be the breather cover could be a sign that the oil is going through the breather, and this would tie in with the theory of it going to the airbox.

If it helps, the other day I got on the bike and done about 12 miles worth of hard riding. When I sopped, the engine cover was extremely hot, as was the exhaust, and the fumes coming from it. I put this down to either being normal (I don't usually check how hot the engine is after 12 miles, so didn't know if it was normal or not), or to the fact that I had no oil in my viewing window. I phoned my mate, who brought out some oil for me, and carried on my way. But now I'm thinking maybe the reason it was running so hot was due to the airbox/filter being clogged with oil? I don't know if that would make it run hot, but if it would, that would tie in with your theory.

Thanks for the great responses to everything I have posted, you are all so helpful. Especially you, Stormi! It's much appreciated. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of my problem and I can get it sorted out. I love my little bike, but in it's current condition I am very unsure. I would hate to have to sell it (at a major loss!) and would be over the mon if I could get it fixed and soted out and carry on using it with no more problems. We definately seem to be getting somewhere. I hope what I have said in this post makes sense/helps.

Cheers!!

[doqq]

what kind of front is that on your bike? looks good.

[stormi]

Yes, I am using motorcycle oil in it. Today I got some more 10W-40 which is specifically for motorcycles and isn't synthetic. I topped it up to the F line and am gong to top it up after 100 miles and see how much it takes, and note it down. After 44 miles it had gone down a few millimeters, but is still well above the low marker on the viewing window.

Sounds good.  You might find as you get less and less synthetic in there, that you might lose more slowly too.  Depending on where you're losing to.

I emptied out a load of coolant today to top it up with antifreeze and get ready for winter, and it looked fine, not milky at all.

This is a good thing.   Here our antifreeze is the same as coolant, so I don't have to change it.  I just make sure that it's topped up.

What you mention about the smell of the exhaust fumes possibly being down to running rich, that could be true. I remember Peter (mechanic) saying at some point a while ago that the carbs had been jetted perfectly, but I think he was talking about my other bike (2 stroke dirt bike) So the carbs on the Bandit may indeed be needing jetted properly. It doesn't have a sweet smell, so it's not antifreeze. I guess you're probably right and that it is normal.

I think it likely is OK.  You might want to have him check the jetting for that can that you have.  

I do know that when we were having problems getting it to run, Peter took the engine apart and one of the things he did was to take out the valves and clean them and put them back in. So maybe what you said about a valve seal being loose could be true. I don't know if he could still see the honing cross hatch on the cylinders, but I will ask him and see if he could.

The only reason that I ask this is that if he could see the cross hatch, he'd know that it wasn't glazed.  So, I wondered if he'd said it was glazed because he didn't see the cylinder walls, or if he -knew- they were glazed.  It's likely not a big deal.  I know that at about 47000kms, the honing was still obvious on Dita's cylinder walls, and her engine was a little carbonned up from running rich, and lack of care before we got her.

I made him explain to me today exactly what he meant about the glazing, and he pretty much said what you said. He said that as the previous owner was a woman, it may only have been used very gently, and infrequently, and so the piston rings may have become polished, and may be letting oil leak through and get burnt. This is why he suggested riding it hard, to try and persuade the rings to bed in the way they should have originally, and stop the oil leaking through and getting burnt. But what you said makes sense, if this was happening, I should be getting spooge. And the exhaust smoke should clearly show that it's burning oil, but it seems pretty much normal. And there isn't any spooge on the end of the can either. There is a lot of black carbon, (I cleaned it, but the next day it was black again) but this is normal. It isn't oily at all. So if theres no spooge, and no oily smoke, it must not be glazed, it must be something else. I'm with you on that one, what you said does add up and make sense.

Obviously he's never seen me ride.  There's not going to be a lot of glazing in any of my bikes' cylinders.  Did he know the woman, or was he making a blanket statement? I'm surprised he would have let you run synthetic while letting all of that stuff bed in.  Especially if he suspected that you'd be putting it out the tailpipe.   The black carbon indicates a rich condition, and would also explain the smell.

The small oil leak I reffered to, I messed up. There are 3 black round things, not four. I'm not sure which part it is, but apparently they are just the bolts or whatever that hold the engine casing on. There is 1 on each side, and 1 on the sligjtly raised part in the middle. It appeared to be the one on the right that was leaking, but I tightened it. I'll keep an eye on it and see how it goes. It's not coming from the carbs or intake pipes, don't worry.

Oh!! Right on the top of the valve cover.  Whew!  Ok,.. let us know if it keeps leaking.  I do find it interesting that the places that you're leaking from are all in the area that we suspect a problem.  

I've not looked at my airbox or airfilter, but I will do that ASAP. If the breather is the bit that was leaking a little, what you said about the breather also letting the oil drain into the airbox may be true. Especially since Peter took all the valves out and cleaned them, maybe he did pinch the oil feeder hose, so the oil could be spewing into the head gasket and being sucked into te airbox. This would explain why there is a little oil seeping out of the breather cover (if that's what it is). This makes sense, and I think you could be onto something. I will check the airbox and airfilter ASAP (can't do it now, it's 1:10am. lol)

The breather is designed to let a little bit of oil through into the airbox.  Of course if it's letting that much through, then there's way too much being supplied to it.

I will double check with him about the head gasket, and see what he has to say about it.

Without the oil or antifreeze being cloudy, I think your head gasket is likely fine.  If it will give you peace of mind though, go ahead and ask him.

He didn't have any concerns about it when I went and picked it up. I messed up a bit in my last post (again! lol). We topped up the coolant (there had been air bubbles in it, so me riding it forced the bubbles out and so the coolant needed topped up. But we didn't top up the oil, I know I said we did, but I was just confusing myself, lol. We checked it, and the level was ok, so we were happy.

Ok,.. so he had you ride it to burp it.  That works.  Otherwise, getting the bubbles out can be a real pain.  I had my firebird do that once.  He must have "almost" overheated 3 times before he was willing to burp.  God how I hated watching that.  I kept turning him off, the mechanic was getting a little choked with me.  

I have been thrashing it so far, as I thought that would fix the problem, but in light of this new information, I guess the problem isn't what i thought it was. Thrashing it hasn't caused a problem yet, but untill I know for sure what the problem is, and get it sorted, I will take it a bit easier.

If it's what we're thinking, you still have oil in the engine, but I'm not sure if it would be causing a low oil pressure situation or not.  Certainly once it dumps so much oil it should be.  Now,.. here's a question.  During all of this, have you seen an oil light?  ( I think the Bandit has one, right?)

The problems the mechanic had before weren't really with the engine. It turned out to be the CDI unit, so once we got that repaired, the problem was sorted. It did take a bit of persuasion to get the engine to start after we fitted the repaired CDI unit, but after towing it for 2 miles, it finally got enough heat into the engine and bump started. It started every time after that, as the engine had been run and things had been moving and oil had been circulating etc. Peter said today that this, as well as the oil consumption problem, could have been down to the glazed barrells, as the glazed barrells would have caused it to have problems starting.

It could have been that, or it could just have been that apparently rebuilt engines are reluctant to start.  We killed Dita's battery dead a couple of times too when we tried to get her started after her transplant.  A little WD-40 encouraged the situation a bit.

Thankfully, my mechanic and I are pretty good friends, due to me being over there so often! lol. He knows I am interested in learning these things, so if I take my bike over for a little job to be done, we will work on it together and he wont charge me for it! So allthough I don't (yet) know how to do things (like checking the airbox and filter) if I take it over we will be able to work on it together, and I won't have to spend an arm and a leg getting all these simple things done. He's a really good helpful guy, Peter.

This is a good thing.  As you're learning, he will be invaluable to you.  Have him go over all of the basic maintenance things with you.  The air filter should be something that you check on a regular basis.  The maintenance schedule is in the Owner's manual that I mentioned.  Maybe even download the service manual for him too.  It may make his life easier.

I know you are questioning wether your theory of the oil ending up in the airbox is far fetched, but I think it makes sense. How else could I lose 3 litres of oil without it leaking out onto the ground, or being blown out of the exhaust? If the airbox has a capacity to hold that much oil, maybe that's where it is going. The small leak from what may be the breather cover could be a sign that the oil is going through the breather, and this would tie in with the theory of it going to the airbox.

I would say that the airbox can hold maybe as much as 2 litres, but assuming that some is being used, and some lost,.. maybe that's all it needs to hold.  I will say this though, if that is where it's going, you're going to have to fix that fast, because it will start to make a hell of a mess if you don't, and very soon.   It will start to spill out the intake in the airbox, all over the bike, and likely your pants.  It will suck way more oil into the carbs than they're designed to take in, and of course a LOT of oil in the combustion chamber is not a good thing.  

Hey!  You have a digital camera, right?  Can you have a friend take a couple of pics of you riding the bike?  Hopefully I can get an idea of how blue that exhaust is when you're under way.

If it helps, the other day I got on the bike and done about 12 miles worth of hard riding. When I sopped, the engine cover was extremely hot, as was the exhaust, and the fumes coming from it. I put this down to either being normal (I don't usually check how hot the engine is after 12 miles, so didn't know if it was normal or not), or to the fact that I had no oil in my viewing window. I phoned my mate, who brought out some oil for me, and carried on my way. But now I'm thinking maybe the reason it was running so hot was due to the airbox/filter being clogged with oil? I don't know if that would make it run hot, but if it would, that would tie in with your theory.

It would certainly make the bike run rich, if the filter was starting to soak a bunch of the oil up, but I would think that it would be having some trouble breathing. (Which again would explain your rich condition, and the thought that your mechanic said that the carbs were jetted right before.  Since your 2-stroke will only have one carb. )  How was it running, besides hot?  You might want to think about carrying a bottle of oil with you, especially if you're going to be riding it hard.  I've never really checked the temps either after any length of ride, so I could say off the top of my head if it's normal or not.  I would think that 12 miles should be more than enough to heat the engine up though.  

Thanks for the great responses to everything I have posted, you are all so helpful. Especially you, Stormi! It's much appreciated. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of my problem and I can get it sorted out. I love my little bike, but in it's current condition I am very unsure. I would hate to have to sell it (at a major loss!) and would be over the mon if I could get it fixed and soted out and carry on using it with no more problems. We definately seem to be getting somewhere. I hope what I have said in this post makes sense/helps.

Once this problem is sorted, I bet everything else you find will be minor.  It seems to be running well despite this problem, so I wouldn't be too unsure about it.  

Oh, before I forget, double check that your Regulator Rectifier is working properly, since you had all those problems with the CDI.  I posted a test for you in the last question you had when you couldn't get the bike to run.  It's the electrex.com (or similar) link.  Now that the bike is running, you can go through this test and know tha tyour charging system is good, and that will help protect your CDI.

[Coopz]

Lol, he was just making a blanket statement about the previous owner being a girl. Hardly any girls ride around here, and the ones that do only ride on sunny weekends (i.e. NEVER! lol)

It wasn't him who suggested I use synthetic, it was the guy in the auto supply shop I sopped in at. He reccommended it saying that synthetic is the best because it never loses it's lubrication properties. I asked Peter and he said I'd be better sticking to a non-synthetic, just as you said.

Oh!! Right on the top of the valve cover. Whew! Ok,.. let us know if it keeps leaking. I do find it interesting that the places that you're leaking from are all in the area that we suspect a problem.

Lol, sorry for causing the confusion! So the leak from the valve cover.... would that tie in with the theory of the glazed barrell/piston rings, or would it tie in with the theory of all the oil draining into the airbox?

If it's what we're thinking, you still have oil in the engine, but I'm not sure if it would be causing a low oil pressure situation or not. Certainly once it dumps so much oil it should be. Now,.. here's a question. During all of this, have you seen an oil light? ( I think the Bandit has one, right?)

Again, would that be referring to the glazing, or the leaking oil feeder hose? I'm not sure as to why it would cause a low pressure situation. I keep topping up the oil, so maybe it just hasn't gotten so low as to allow this to happen? I'm slightly confused I'm afraid.
You are correct about the bandit having an oil light, but it has never came on. I once questioned Peter about it, assuming that the light indicated a low oil level, but he said that it's not related to the level of the oil, but to the pressure. He said that once the light comes on, you have about 2 seconds to turn off the engine before it blows! But thankfully, no, it has never come on.

Hey! You have a digital camera, right? Can you have a friend take a couple of pics of you riding the bike? Hopefully I can get an idea of how blue that exhaust is when you're under way.

I don't have a digital camera (allthough I would love to have one!) but I have a camera phone, which is where I get all the pics of my bike to put on here. It's not very good quality, but I will see if I can get some good example pics/video for you to look at. I doubt you will see anything significant though, the smoke isn't that bad, and my phone will probably not give a very clear picture of it.

After my 12 mile ride, when the engine was hot, it seemed to be running ok. The reason I pulled over after 12 miles was because I became worried about the engine. I knew the oil was low, and it started feeling wierd, so I pulled over. I turned it off and back on, and it seemed to be running ok, so after getting fresh oil I carried on my way. I guess the wierd feeling was just due to bad road surfacing or something, but I get so paranoid that I always assume the worst. But apart from running hot, it seemed fine. I have been carrying oil with me quite frequently now, and checking the level at least once daily.

Thanks for the suggestion about testing my regulator/rectifier. Coincidentaly, it was electrex.com who repaired my old CDI! I will give it a go soon and make sure the charging system is working properly.


Do you still think that the oil may be going into the airbox?
Do you think the theory of glazed barels/piston rings should be disregarded?



And doqq, the my bike has the "dash" fairing from M&P, retailing just now for £29.99. My one needed a sielight bulb installed to let it pass the mot, but after that, it passed. The lights aren't very strong, and riding in the dark is mostly guesswork! But yes, it looks good. Thanks!

[Coopz]

Here's a story for you.

Today I went out on the bike. It was soaking wet, and freezing. The little B4 was reluctant to start. I opened the feul cover and water started pouring into the tank from around the opening. (I know it should drain through a hole just inside the opening, but for some reason the water doesn't drain properly.) Not too much went in, but more than I'd have liked. I still had plenty of feul, so I closed it and carried on trying to start the bike. It worked after a minute, and I was away.

I carried on into town and went to Bow and Stern, a shop which sells and repairs outboard motors and quads. I had an interview there the other week for an apprenticeship, and I found out today that I got the job! Yay!!  
Now I'll be getting trained properly how to fix things and how everything works!

Anyway, I went to leave the shop and my bike was behaving wierd. It was like the whole rev range was a flatspot. It sounded different too, kind of like it does when the engine is cold and you open the throttle too quickly, and it kind of bogs down for a second. But it sounded like this all through the rev range. And the power seemed weaker too. I guessed that this may be a symptom of my water contamination, so I went to top up with some fresh fuel.

Now here's the wierd part.
When I stopped at the petrol station, I got off the bike and noticed that there were two bolts sitting in my belly pan! I got them out (burning my hand on the down pipes in the process   ) and tried to figure out where they were from. To be honest, they looked like engine casing bolts. To start with it looked like they had fallen out of somewhere, but looking closer I saw that the bolts had snapped. I couldn't find anywhere that they had come from. I considerewd the possibility that they had come from my last engine, and just been sitting in there ever since it had been in the garage getting fixed, but I have cleaned my bike a few times since getting it back, and never noticed them before. I know that Peter had switched the bolts from my old engine casing onto my new engine, as some of my ones were adonised gold, but there were still a few that were just the normal colour. I don't know if maybe he managed to snap a couple in the process of removing them from the old engine, and they fell into the belly pan and were forgotten and un-noticed, or if they fell out of somewhere on the bike recently. One has a couple of numbers on around the edge of it, but I don't have it with me, so can't tell you what they are.

Now here's the stupid part.
Too busy worrying where the bolts had come from, I somehow managed to start putting diesel into my little bike, instead of unleaded petrol!!  
As soon as I noticed, I stopped, went and payed for it, and pushed my bike off to the side. I had to take off the tank and pour everything out down the nearest drainer. What a waste of money! Then I had to fill it up again, with petrol this time! Thankfully, I managed to connect all the hoses properly, and it started no problem. It is now running the way it should, revving properly, and with the usual power. I can't believe I never even noticed I had taken the diesel nozzle instead of the petrol one! Mind you, I had a lot on my mind, being excited about my new job, and worried about those bolts.

I couldn't find anywhere the bolts could have come from, and it didn't fall apart on me on the way home, so it seems to be ok.

Any idea where they could have come from? They could have just been there since the engine transplant, but I think I would have noticed them before.
Also, was the water in my petrol the cause of my running problem? It seems that it was, but I can't help but wonder if it could have been due to my oil guzzling problem. Maybe the airbox being full of oil (if it is?) was what was affecting it? The bike ran well for about 10 miles after getting water into the feul, but after stopping and starting, the problem occured. Was it just down to the watery petrol?

I didn't get a chance to go over and see peter today, or get pictures of the exhaust smoke, as the weather was so bad. I did, however, do my 100 mile oil top-up. It took about 270ml of oil. After 100 miles I'll see how much it takes. Hopefully it won't take so much next time, and even less the time after that, until settles to an appropriate rate.

[stormi]

Lol, he was just making a blanket statement about the previous owner being a girl. Hardly any girls ride around here, and the ones that do only ride on sunny weekends (i.e. NEVER! lol)

In fairness, I don't think I'm the typical rider here either. I see a number of girls on the road, the large majority of them are on cruisers though.  I have a few female acquiantances that ride sport bikes (A pair of VTR1000s), but I've never seen them ride. I ride to about 5C (about 41F), in windy weather, and in rain ( though not as much as I used to)

It wasn't him who suggested I use synthetic, it was the guy in the auto supply shop I sopped in at. He reccommended it saying that synthetic is the best because it never loses it's lubrication properties. I asked Peter and he said I'd be better sticking to a non-synthetic, just as you said.

Always nice to be backed up by an actual mechanic.   You really should be changing your oil ( once you stop losing of course) fairly often, because the clutch is sharing oil with the engine.  2 things contaminating the oil.  I think my bikes usually get 2 oil changes a season.  (This year was weird because of the engine transplant.)  I put about 5000kms per year on the bikes.  It's cheap insurance.

Lol, sorry for causing the confusion! So the leak from the valve cover.... would that tie in with the theory of the glazed barrell/piston rings, or would it tie in with the theory of all the oil draining into the airbox?

That would more tie into the oil draining into the airbox

Again, would that be referring to the glazing, or the leaking oil feeder hose? I'm not sure as to why it would cause a low pressure situation. I keep topping up the oil, so maybe it just hasn't gotten so low as to allow this to happen? I'm slightly confused I'm afraid.

Well,.. low volume can cause a low pressure situation.  Air compresses more than liquid.  I would think you'd have to be pretty low though for the low pressure light to come on.

You are correct about the bandit having an oil light, but it has never came on. I once questioned Peter about it, assuming that the light indicated a low oil level, but he said that it's not related to the level of the oil, but to the pressure. He said that once the light comes on, you have about 2 seconds to turn off the engine before it blows! But thankfully, no, it has never come on.

I honestly think that the engine light will come on immediately after the "Big Bang", but that just shows how much I trust anything electrical.  

The only reason I didn't remember, is that haven't been riding the bandit a lot this year, having spent most of it on the Hornet.  

I don't have a digital camera (allthough I would love to have one!) but I have a camera phone, which is where I get all the pics of my bike to put on here. It's not very good quality, but I will see if I can get some good example pics/video for you to look at. I doubt you will see anything significant though, the smoke isn't that bad, and my phone will probably not give a very clear picture of it.

Give'er a shot and we'll see what we can come up with.

After my 12 mile ride, when the engine was hot, it seemed to be running ok. The reason I pulled over after 12 miles was because I became worried about the engine. I knew the oil was low, and it started feeling wierd, so I pulled over. I turned it off and back on, and it seemed to be running ok, so after getting fresh oil I carried on my way. I guess the wierd feeling was just due to bad road surfacing or something, but I get so paranoid that I always assume the worst. But apart from running hot, it seemed fine. I have been carrying oil with me quite frequently now, and checking the level at least once daily.

Hmm,.. define "weird"

Thanks for the suggestion about testing my regulator/rectifier. Coincidentaly, it was electrex.com who repaired my old CDI! I will give it a go soon and make sure the charging system is working properly.

They seem like a pretty good bunch.  That test is easiest when done with a second person.  Perhaps Peter will help you with it the first time around.  

Do you still think that the oil may be going into the airbox?

I do.  I can't think of many other places for it to be going.  There are 3 places that I can think of for oil to "escape" the engine, without obvious leaks.  
1.  Into the coolant, via a failed head gasket.  But it's all clear, the oil and the coolant, so I can't see this being the case.
2. Past the rings and out the pipe.  But you tell us that the exhaust isn't terribly blue.  Since you ride a 2 stroke dirtbike, I'm reasonably sure you know what you're looking for.
3. Out the breather at the top of the engine.

Do you think the theory of glazed barels/piston rings should be disregarded?

based on what you've told us, I can't see the cylinders and rings being glazed.  If they were, you'd be blowing blue out the tail.  You tell us that you're not seeing this.