Ivan's or Holeshot Stage 1?

[PitterB4]

By request, a good post from before the "big crash of '05"!  It is pasted here 1 page per post.

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B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:30 pm
Post subject: Ivan's or Holeshot Stage 1?

Which jet kit to buy to work with an aftermarket can?

Holeshot stage 1 comes with a timing advancer, Ivan's does not.

While I'm asking...how difficult is the installation of these kits? Assume the installer  can turn a wrench just fine, but hasn't been into a motorcycle carb before.
_________________
2001 Bandit 600s
1991 Porsche 944 Cabrio (for sale)
"Blown" 2002 Nissan Frontier

 
KevinB600
Location: New Milford. CT
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:17 pm

Matt

I have nothing but good things to say about my Holeshot s/o, and Stage 1 jet kit, with timing advancer. I had a mechanic install the jet kit, because I wanted it tweaked just right. I installed the 14" comp, and mid pipe, which took about 20 mins. No more 20 minute warmups and riding with the choke half on. I stuck with Holeshot, because Dale tests all his products, and I figured that the pipe would match the jet kit since they are both made by the same builder, as opposed to an Ivan jet kit, and another brand slip-on. Just my $.02.
_________________
Kevin R
New Milford, CT
02 Bandit 600 S
Road Dawg

 
PeteSC
Location: SC,USA
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:39 pm

FWIW, Ivan and Dale give good customer support. As far as product quality and support, you'll be OK with either.

I'd get opinions from people who actually installed the kits on the same generation 600 you have.
(I had a shop install my jet kit, also.)
I',m afraid of my carbs since I have huge hands, and am a crossthreader!
_________________
1999 Bandit 1200s 'Oprah'
2003 DR650SE
North Augusta, SC

 
WEINERDOGBONE
Location: CENTRAL INDIANA
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:00 pm

I've installed a stage 1 Holeshot kit on my B12. It wasn't difficult. It was a pain getting the carbs off and back on the bike but the jetting in fairly simple. The timing advancer takes about 10 minutes to put on and the pipe is a piece of cake.

If you like to work on things, do it yourself. If you are easily frustrated, farm the work out. IMHO. I've had great luck w/the Holeshot mods. I don't have any experience w/Ivan's.

 
B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:46 pm

I enjoy working on my own stuff, but I'll call my m/c mechanic and see what it would cost me to have him install it.
_________________
2001 Bandit 600s
1991 Porsche 944 Cabrio (for sale)
"Blown" 2002 Nissan Frontier

 
PeteSC
Location: SC,USA
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:54 pm

I had mine installed at a local 'performance' shop, and it was a little over $200 including a dyno run.

(Not counting parts!)
_________________
1999 Bandit 1200s 'Oprah'
2003 DR650SE
North Augusta, SC

 
oremike
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:40 am
Post subject: Ivan VS Holeshot

thru this on my own a year or so ago with my B-12. Which is better? Both offer good customer service, good parts, and a large customer base. I went with the Ivans kit/air box mod and a Yosh TRS Zyclone. I wanted to get real world preformance. I haven't found a place where I needed more power on the top end than a stock B-12 has. Holeshots kits are designed as a steping stone up grade and they work well that way. Once you get above a Mid pipe/can, jet kit/ air box mod you start to loose low end power and gain top end. Not what I wanted to do. All tho 140 hp is atractive. I chose the Yosh over the rest of the muffler/mid pipes because I wanted the quitest after market muffler/mid pipe and I like the tri-angler profile. As for installing the jet kit, I did my own. I just took my time and did it right. It took a couple of hours. One nice thing of doing it myself is that I've been able to readjust the needle clips a couple of times to get my bike running how I want with out fear. A shop will just guess at whats best for you. What's the differance you ask, well on one end theres the stock run lean stumble with about 40 mpg and the other I got my mileage down to about 28 mpg but every time I down shifted to pass the front end would lift in 3rd gear. Power VS mileage. Right now I get 35 mpg and have a flat even torque curve, no low end stumble and no WFO only power hit.
Just one mans opinion of course, worth what you paid for it
Mike M.
_________________
ride the roads that make you giggle in your helmet

Hydrogen
Location: Hotalnta, GA
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:08 am

Either way I'd have a M/C Mechanic do it. Apparently Bandits are notorious for needing new float bowls and other extra hardware which unless you are familiar with the carb enough to tell could be a missed opportunity to get it all at once.

My half cent's worth
-H
________________
The bigger the power the bigger the smile..
It'll take death and a surgeon to remove the smile from my face.

 
Red01
Location: WA, USA
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:25 am

Hydrogen wrote:

Apparently Bandits are notorious for needing new float bowls and other extra hardware

Really? News to me. I haven't heard of anything like that from our members here, nor in my readings of other boards that discuss the Bandit.
_________________
Paul

oremike
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:49 am  
Post subject: Ivans vs holeshot

Hydrogen wrote:

Apparently Bandits are notorious for needing new float bowls and other extra hardware  

Could you please state your source for this? it's not anything I've seen before. Thanks
Mike M.
_________________
ride the roads that make you giggle in your helmet

[PitterB4]

Hydrogen
Location: Hotalnta, GA

When I was researching which Jet Kit to buy I spoke with a few local (road Atlanta) people including an instructor down there. In those conversations 3 of them mentioned to check the float bowls (2 had been B12 owners).

When I finally decided on a FactoryPro 3.0 kit. They also mentioned it to my mechanic (Factory Pro vendor). Well needless to say I DID need to replace them (some of them?) which was a minimal cost but did delay me getting the bike back another 4 days due to shipping from CA.

That all being said there could be a piece I am leaving out and don't realize it.

Take it or leave it...

-H

P.S. Coincidence?? 8 of the 9 people I spoke with were Suzuki monkeys (SV 650 and Gixxers) and all suggested FactoryPro. Not a cheap plug since I've shown Holeshots stage2 w/pods delivers more power and earlier with my dyno numbers.
_________________
The bigger the power the bigger the smile..
It'll take death and a surgeon to remove the smile from my face.

 
oremike
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:13 pm  
Post subject: factory pro

I wonder if they ment the float bowl gaskits?

Mike M.
_________________
ride the roads that make you giggle in your helmet

 
Hydrogen
Location: Hotalnta, GA
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:22 pm    
Post subject: Re: factory pro

oremike wrote:

I wonder if they ment the float bowl gaskits?
Mike M.

Dunno. Perhaps. I will look at my invoice to verify
_________________
The bigger the power the bigger the smile..
It'll take death and a surgeon to remove the smile from my face.

zeebandit
Location: Hammond Indiana
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:53 pm

I know of quite a few people that had a problem with the float bowl screws. Maybe that's what he said.

 
Red01
Location: WA, USA
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:08 am

Now THAT make sense!

I did replace all my float bowl screws with allen head screws from the local hardware store, but I figured that into the process and took an OEM screw down to the store with me to make sure I got the right ones.

Since I got my Holeshot jet kit, Dale has started including new allen float bowl screws in his kits, so you don't have to hassle with that trip anymore.
_________________
Paul

 
FrankB12
Location: Southwest Chicago Suburbs
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:28 am

Ivan's Jet Kit is a good kit. I am quite happy with mine. Having said that, I'm sure that Holeshot, DynoJet, etc. will give you similar performance. Just make sure that you're careful with the installation.

Frank

   
Red01
Location: WA, USA
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:02 pm

While Dynojet (and K&N, which is just a repackaged Dynojet) makes some fine kits for some bikes, their B12 kit is well known on several Bandit boards to be problematic. Kits from Holeshot, Ivan's and Factory-Pro all seem to work fine though.
_________________
Paul

 
BIGB43082
Location: COLUMBUS OHIO
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:58 pm

I personally wouldn't buy any jet kit except holeshot!!! Dale is a bandit expert and is pretty partial to suzuki from what I can gather. I will be purchasing a stage 1 kit later this year and doing it myself, with the help of one of my buddies of course.  I figure that it will be a good learning experience and the Bandit is pretty easy to work on. Dale Walker will help you dial everything in if you call or email him.
_________________
03 Bandit 1200s

snofrog
Location: petersburg mi
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:00 am

BIGB43082 wrote:

I personally wouldn't buy any jet kit except holeshot!!! Dale is a bandit expert and is pretty partial to suzuki from what I can gather. I will be purchasing a stage 1 kit later this year and doing it myself, with the help of one of my buddies of course.  I figure that it will be a good learning experience and the Bandit is pretty easy to work on. Dale Walker will help you dial everything in if you call or email him.

I've got Ivans kit in my b-12 and it makes great power. I think it would be foolish to dissmiss him as a bonafied contender in this arena. With that being said, I thought about the two kits for quite some time and when all was said and done, price won out. I have zero problems to mention. It starts great, runs great and no stumbles at all... jmho M

Also, if you do the install yourself, one thing to warn you about - there are these small o-rings in the caps made of rubber, one each. If you drop one of these they will take off like they are rocket propelled... go ahead, ask me how I know.

 
BIGB43082
Location: COLUMBUS OHIO
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:18 am

LOL!! I heard about those runaway orings I didn't mean to dismiss anyone else, I am glad to hear that there is another good performance company to go to that you can trust and has a good product. Holeshot does tend to be pricey, but I think that you get what you pay for.

[PitterB4]

B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Tue Jan 04

Do I need to buy a float guage along with my jet kit? http://www.holeshot.com/main/showimage.shtml?tools/images/tool_floatgauge.jpg
Did you guys synch your carbs when you installed your jet kits?
_________________
2001 Bandit 600s
1991 Porsche 944 Cabrio (for sale)
"Blown" 2002 Nissan Frontier

 
Red01
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:05 am

No, not if you have something you can use to measure it with.
_________________
Paul

Steve
Location: Washington Rain Forest - USA
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:34 am    
Post subject: What?

I personally wouldn't buy any jet kit except holeshot!!! Dale is a bandit expert and is pretty partial to suzuki from what I can gather. I will be purchasing a stage 1 kit later this year and doing it myself, with the help of one of my buddies of course.  

I ran the Holeshot stage 1 and was very happy with it, until I decided to try Ivan's kit. I only paid 50 bucks for Ivan's kit so " guess I get what I paid for'" but I have been very pleased with the results and have never considered going back.

Of course, I did the work myself so who knows what that means right?

Scooter's happy and I'm happy. You sure you would'nt .....

Steve

 
B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:57 pm

$50???!!! Where'd you get it for $50, Steve?

BIGB43082
Location: COLUMBUS OHIO
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:08 pm

I went to Ivans site, I didn't see any jet kits for the B12 that was $50. I did see a $130 jet kit which didn't include a timing advancer like holeshot does!! Ivan doesn't recommend an advancer and Dale Walker does. Who is right, or wrong?
_________________
03 Bandit 1200s

Steve
Location: Washington Rain Forest - USA
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:40 pm    
Post subject: 50 dolla

I got the kit directly from Ivan, he ran a special for a while. Not only that, after I had the kit installed and ran it for 8 -9 months (don't remember exactly) Ivan got hold of a few of us and sent out new needles that made the bike run even stronger, at no charge. (Ivan's stage 1 kit does include new needles.) At 130 bucks it is still a good deal, I like 50 better though .

As far as the advancer, I have a Holeshot advancer in place. I have gone back and forth between the +5 and stock several times, what I have noticed is slightly better gas mileage and throttle response with the advancer in place, the engine idles smoother (and seems to be a bit smoother at road speed with the stocker in place. Since I had one already paid for from my Holeshot kit I run it. Personnally I don't think I would spend the bucks to get one if I didn't have it already (if I had the opportunity to test them back and forth as I have).

Steve

 
B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:52 am

I just noticed that Holeshot website says that B6 jet kit is for 1996 - 1999 B6 only. Ivan's website says its B6 kit is for 2k and up. Guess that means Ivan's for me.
_________________
2001 Bandit 600s
1991 Porsche 944 Cabrio (for sale)
"Blown" 2002 Nissan Frontier

 
Red01
Location: WA, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:46 am

You didn't look at the Holeshot site very carefully.
Dale has a 2G B6 jet kit right here.
_________________
Paul

B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:58 am

Thanks, Paul. Went back and checked it again and, of course, you're right.
_________________
2001 Bandit 600s
1991 Porsche 944 Cabrio (for sale)
"Blown" 2002 Nissan Frontier

 
JoeyNineToes
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:55 am    
Post subject: Same old question

Matt,
I've got an 02 B6 with an Ivan's kit, I had the dealer install it, although we were going to do it at BOSS 03 but never got the chance. I'm quite happy with it. I found Ivan to be a New Yorker on the phone, but a nice one, and had great costumer service, I've found the same of Dale. Both are recommended.

Somehow I've grown weary of the banter on this question. Specifically when someone sides hard one way or the other. Their is significant backing by enough well known riders/posters on both sides of this to show that they are both great kits, with great customer support. I think the only way we could put it to rest is to have a comparison done by someone we all trusted on the same bike, with new kits, like Red or the
WebMonster himself. Until then, great kits, great guys, make ours beloved bandits better, right?!
_________________

[PitterB4]

Davespit1
Location: Butler PA
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005

Matt, I have heard good things about both kits. I have Dales kit in mine and the instructions are very good if you are a first timer. It is alot harder to get the carbs on and off than to install a jet kit. Just take your time and go thru the instructions. Do not be afraid to do it yourself. It really is Quite easy. If you run into a snag just post here or call Dale. You do not really need a float gauge as long as you can measure with something. As far as carb sync goes you do not need to as long as you don't take the carbs off of the rail. I think the 600 has Kehnins(spelling???) and they are the easier of the 2 to work on.

 
B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:38 am

Thanks, Dave. I installed the Yoshi can and a jet kit is the next order of business.

I didn't mean to cause a feud, and through the collective experiences of others, I've learned that either one will probably work quite well.

Steve
Location: Washington Rain Forest - USA
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:00 am  
Post subject: Carb sync

Carb sync is another topic on which folks seem to differ.

As far as carb sync goes you do not need to as long as you don't take the carbs off of the rail.

I might agree that since the carbs are mounted to a common rail that removing and replacing the rack (or rail if you choose) by itself does not necessitate a carb sync. Since he is removing the carbs to get into them and make changes, the only way that he is going to get optimum results is to do a carb sync though.

Carb sync is like any other tuning element, it may not have been that great before the bike was worked on, there is no way that it got better by itself, and it needs to be done once in a while.

I prefer to be sure that the valves are properly adjusted, the ignition system is in good shape, air & breather filters are ok, and then that the carbs are jetted and syncronized. Skip a step and it's just not the same.

My .02c
Steve

 
KevinB600
Location: New Milford. CT
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:11 pm

IMHO Holeshot is better because in addition to the jet kit, good customer service, etc., ; which may be equal to Ivan's.........Dale has the upper hand in which he offers a tested and proven, a variety of slip-ons, mid pipes, and a timing advancer, that has to make him stand out. Just my $.02. k:

B12Teuton
Location: Hotlanta, GA, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:57 pm

I went with Ivan's.

His customer service was first rate
His jet kit was cheaper than Dales's (I got it 1/2 off because I bought my Yosh pipe from Ivan as well)
His kit came with new needles for the second Gen B12 which Dale's did not!
His kit with airbox mod makes about the same power as Dales Stage 2 with pod filters!!!!
The install and instructions were perfect.
The suggested setup was perfect.

See my detailed DIY jet kit install of Ivan's here on Bandit Alley.
_________________
Manny
"Bikeless in Atlanta"  

 
Davespit1
Location: Butler PA
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:58 am

Matt, Steve is correct that you should sync the carbs once in a while. What I meant was installing a jet kit is'nt going to change the sync. If they are out of sync before they will be after. I forgot to mention to have a very good quality screwdriver to get the float bowl screws off. Sometimes they strip and you will need to use needlenose vise grips to get them off. Dale's kits come with allens in case they strip.

Dave

Steve
Location: Washington Rain Forest - USA
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:55 am  
Post subject: bowl screws

I used an impact driver (the kind you smack with a hammer, be sure the direction is set right!) with a very good tip and got all my bowl screws off without any problem. I was gentle enough with the impact driver that the float adjustments were not disturbed.

Ivan's kit came with hex drive screws, no issue.

I, and several others here, run (or used to run) a Yoshimura slip on. Good stuff, if not the best stuff, out there for Suzuki bikes.

You should consider that the factory carb sync (or first service) was done with factory carb settings. When you drill out the EPA plugs and reset your idle air screws, that alone will change the carbs relative to each other.

Sometimes it is interesting to read the entire message thread from the start and see how the topic develops.

Good luck!

Steve

Davespit1
Location: Butler PA
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:38 pm

Steve, I am not saying that Dale's kit is better than Ivan's. I have never used Ivan's, so I can't compare. What I am telling Matt is not to be afraid to try the kit install himself cause they are easy if you are mechanically inclined and you can follow simple instructions. I was just telling him about the float bowl screws so he would not worry about stripping them. I personally would rather take the srews out with needle nose vise grips (if they strip) than hitting my delicate carbs with an impact driver and hammer. Matt obviously don't have a carb sync tool and if the bike idles smooth and has smooth power delivery he will not absolutely have to sync the carbs right away. But yes, I agree it is better to sync the carbs and adjust valves when needed. Mabye hitting the carbs with a hammer throws the sync off a little too? Who knows?

Later,
Dave

 
Steve
Location: Washington Rain Forest - USA
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:01 pm  
Post subject: gotcha

And besides, all that matters is that each of is happy when we are done messing around right (but who is ever really done?).

The hammer? Just another tool right. I didn't actually "hit the carbs" with the hammer, but if I did goof 'em, it was not evident, besides I sync'd 'em when I was done.  Reading some of the horror stories about folks tearing the heads off of screws I stand by my choice of tools, granted someone with a less delicate touch could do some serious remodeling on a rack of carbs with a hammer and an impact wrench.

Steve

 
B12Teuton
Location: Hotlanta, GA, USA
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:24 pm

Davespit1 wrote:

Matt, Steve is correct that you should sync the carbs once in a while. What I meant was installing a jet kit is'nt going to change the sync. If they are out of sync before they will be after. I forgot to mention to have a very good quality screwdriver to get the float bowl screws off. Sometimes they strip and you will need to use needlenose vise grips to get them off. Dale's kits come with allens in case they strip. Dave

So does Ivan's

[PitterB4]

B6Matt wrote:

I didn't mean to cause a feud, and through the collective experiences of others, I've learned that either one will probably work quite well.

Lol, trouble maker!!
k:
_________________
The bigger the power the bigger the smile..
It'll take death and a surgeon to remove the smile from my face.

 
GREGM
Location: Central California
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:50 am  
Post subject: Ivan's jet kit

Just installesd Ivan's kit and the Muzzy's exhaust. Ohhh, Wow!!! What a power increase, and it sounds great, too. The front tire comes off the ground without even trying. I used Ivan's recommened settings, but have not sinc'd the carbs. The way it runs, I don't see much change needed. It was simple, just follow his directions.

 
B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:04 pm

Greg,

Do you have a B6 or B12?
_________________
2001 Bandit 600s
1991 Porsche 944 Cabrio (for sale)
"Blown" 2002 Nissan Frontier

 
B12Teuton
Location: Hotlanta, GA, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:22 pm

B6Matt wrote:

Greg,
Do you have a B6 or B12?

Uhhhh.......

GREGM wrote:

The front tire comes off the ground without even trying.  

I'll hazzard a guess that it's not a B6.
_________________
Manny
"Bikeless in Atlanta"  

 
GREGM
Location: Central California
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:56 pm

Sorry guys, been away for a few days. To answer the question I have a '03 B12.

 
B6Matt
Location: Knoxvegas, TN, US of A
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:45 am

B12Teuton wrote:

I'll hazzard a guess that it's not a B6.

Well, it DOES have a pipe and jet kit! It could happen on a B6. Ok...maybe I was in fantasyland there for a sec.