Next size up pilots?

[rider123]

Hi for those that are catching up I've had a problem with my bike loading up with fuel in idle and this is a response to DaveG asking how it went:

My bike has a 1.5" hole. I found out what the problem is. The reason my bike was loading up at idle so crazily is that when I got the shop to install the kit at a couple of hundred dollars no less. They didn't adjust the float height at all!! Some of the floats were as low as 11.5mm instead of the 13 +-1mm listed in the guide. No wonder it was loading up at idle! Number 4 cylinder was at 15.5mm so it was starved of fuel. This really pisses me off since I specifically said "check the float height it should be 13mm it's very important". They didn't do phuck all except pop the jets in and hoped for the best. My friend recently got a new bike shop he opened in Oshawa (csmoto.com) so we took the carbs off and fixed it in about 1 hour(so much for the couple of hundred bucks) However I emailed Dale and he suggested I go to 14mm before I actually got to look at the floats so I split the difference and went to 13.5, actually it was 13.4 when we checked the digital calipers again. I have the mixture screws out to 4.5 which I think is a little much so I might go up to 20 pilots which would bring the mixture screws down to a more reasonable 3 turns out or so. I think this is due to the "jihad style" cutting I did on the 1.5" hole it's not exactly perfect so I think it may be a little big. Also maybe the extra .4 leaner on the floats may be contributing slightly but it well within spec. I blame my crazy hacksaw ability more than the float level. Lesson learned, do it yourself if you want it done right. Would have saved me alot of time and money jetting around a phucked up install that is super easy to do. I can't believe they phucked it up I even gave them the instructions and everything.

Do you think that a size up on the pilots might be a good idea since I'm 4.5 turns out on the mixture screws?(Seems a bit much) It runs pretty good now in the summer but I'm thinking that in the winter it could use another 1/4 turn or so and that would get it even crazier. According to factory pro. Another size jet up would equal 1 1/2 turns on the pilot screws to get the same fuel level. Conversely, one pilot size down would equal 1 1/2 turns out on the pilots.

So I'm thinking that 20 pilots might be a good idea as it would get me around 3 turns out and would probably give me more headroom to maneuver. I understand that some forum members here have gone up to 20 pilots so it doesn't sound too crazy. Can those that have give me an idea of where they are out on their mixture screws. I have a holeshot kit in there with the 1.5" hole(probably slightly more with my hack job) and 110 mains and 17.5 pilots. Pretty close to sea level.

[txbanditrydr]

I'm at 3.75 turns on the A/F screws.... tried 4 and didn't like the flat spot that resulted.  Holeshot is pretty close to plug-n-play... I go back to the baseline settings in the instructions and start from there since the float heights are now correct.

BTW - I messed with the A/F screws trying to cure a lean problem that ended up being plugged jets (all around - main, pilot, starter).  My bike has never run better since cleaning all the gunk out and I'm at Dale's baseline with the smallest main provided.

YMMV

[rider123]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I tried 3.75, too lean for sure. lots of popping and a bit of  jerkyness at part throttle, also have to drive like 15 mins to warm up at 3.75. 4.5 Seems good but it does seem a little high. Nice and smooth, with power. I realize every bike is different and I'm pretty close to sea level so it could be my bike just needs a little more juice. For fun though I will try the base settings on a nice and hot sticky day. It gets colder here in Toronto than in Texas which may have an effect as well. Its also a brand new air filter so it may be flowing a bit more than a dirty one. Also while my hole is pretty close to 1.5" I have a feeling it's probably a bit bigger(not exactly round)as I didn't have a drill bit even close to 1.5". I guess I could go get an airbox cover at a wreckers and pay them to cut a 1.5" hole in the top for fun. Plugs look good. Number 1 is slightly richer so I may take a shim off. But other than that she runs well. It has been fairly cold here recently so I'll wait until a better day. I can probably go in to 4.25 for sure when the weather warms up. This seems not too far from Dales settings. Hey some guys have their screws at 3 turns from Dale's kit and some like me so I guess as long as it's within 1/2 of a turn I may be ok. Just wanted to hear if anyone else has got 20's in there.

Also it doesn't smell that rich on the tailpipe, no black smoke, etc. Which would indicate a richness problem.

Also forgot the floats were set at 13.4 mm. When checked again with digital calipers but I don't think .4 of a mm is going to make too much difference.

[rider123]

Well thanks for the info guys we actually had a decent day of weather here and the stock settings seem fine now. I did find out what that bit of jerkyness is, it seems that number 1 cylinder was richer than all the other cylinders for some reason so at part throttle it was surging a bit when that cylinder was fired simulating a lean condition. So I took a shim off that one cylinder and it seemed to have done the trick because there is no more surging anymore and now the bike is ludicrously fast. Not that it was slow before.

[smooth operator]

Well thanks for the info guys we actually had a decent day of weather here and the stock settings seem fine now. I did find out what that bit of jerkyness is, it seems that number 1 cylinder was richer than all the other cylinders for some reason so at part throttle it was surging a bit when that cylinder was fired simulating a lean condition. So I took a shim off that one cylinder and it seemed to have done the trick because there is no more surging anymore and now the bike is ludicrously fast. Not that it was slow before.

  Are the carbs synced? Wich would make them open up evenly.

[rider123]

Well they were synched at the beginning of the year but I took them off suspecting that the dealer phucked them up. I was right obviously. I thought they were supposed to be professionals? I'm a computer tech and it's like me installing windows for you but there is no drivers for your hardware, yeah it will run but like shit.

I guess they could use another sync now but I'll probably just do it myself at my friends new bike garage. He lives in another city and I didn't have the tools really so I let the dealer install the kit but they didn't even follow the most basic instructions. Thank god I installed the timing advancer myself, who knows they might have installed it backwards and I would have had a 5 degree timing retarder!

For fun I put the shim back and gained a little power so I'm going to leave it back on there and sync the carbs at my friends shop when I get some time off work. I shoot em a 24 and we'll go crazy. Thanks guys.

To tell you the truth it wasn't that hard to take the carbs off and on again so I guess I was the loser here trusting a "professional" would at least look at the instructions I gave them at the shop. It really bugs me that right on the instructions it says "fuel level is important make sure it's 13mm" or something to that effect in addition I told them verbally as well. When I check it and every one is different one at 11.5!! and another 15.5 you know they just didn't do shit on what is a 5 min adjustment on the float tabs. Just do it yourselves guys. If you guys are in the Toronto area maybe us bandit riders should start a mechanic help pool for simple stuff like this. Even if it's just email or whatever.

[rider123]

Ended up at 4 turns out and all is good. Thanks guys. Need a sync probably though. I'll order a Morgans carbtune tool when I can. May go up to 112.5 mains as well, little weak past half throttle probably due to my ragedly cut hole and the fact that my muzzy is a 2" exhaust and the holeshot exhaust comp 1 which this kit was designed for is a 1.5" exhaust so I may need a little more juice up top.