Author Topic: Cam and Timing Issues (Read 10961 times)

MikeD2001 · « **on:** January 08, 2006, 07:31:38 PM »

Hi all! I bought my '01 1200 this past summer and had a blast on it all summer, from Salem, OR to San Diego and back. Well, the last time I rode it, around October/November, I experienced a clanking sound that quickly got worse and sprang a big oil leak. I found this bolt precariously hanging from the cylinder block.

http://www.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=35129455/PictureID=1016267543/a=41464894_41464894/t_=41464894

http://www.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=35129455/PictureID=1016267540/a=41464894_41464894/t_=41464894

I tightened it as best I could at the time to get it home. Now that I've finally found time to work on it, I'm having trouble getting it to seat completely flush with the block. So my questions are:

1) What is this part called exactly and what does it do?
2) How do I properly reinstall it?

Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thank you.

-Mike

[/url]

2005B12S · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:49:25 PM »

First buy a Suzuki service manual, you are gonna need it.

That is the cam chain tensioner, it supplies tension (force) on the cam chain to keep the motor in time and allow for cam chain stretch/wear. It has a critical function in that it keeps the cams in time with the crankshaft by not allowing any slack in the camchain. If that tension on the cam chain is lost, as it seems in your case, the cams will jump time with very bad consequences, usually bent valves and other nasty things.

First I would open the cam cover and see if the motor jumped time. The manual explains how to do this. If it did, you probably have other damage. I can't imagine the motor ran well at all after this occurance.

The manual also explains how to reset/remount the tensioner itself.

If you take it to a shop be prepared to spend several hundred $.

Good Luck, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED

MikeD2001 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:54:26 PM »

Wow! That was quick. Many thanks, Ed. Being that I have more time than money this time of year, it sounds like I have my work cut out for me. I guess me and this little gal are gonna get a little better acquainted ;) Thanks again.

-Mike

Airmotive · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2006, 12:06:00 AM »

Yeowsa!!!

If she's still running, you dodged one helluva bullet! When I clicked on your image, I wasn't expecting to see the cam chain tensioner bolt!

If she was running okay when you parked it, the cam chain probably didn't jump the gear. The tensioner itself is really a simple gadget; but its failure can be catastrophic.

Definately invest in (or download) a manual. You can probably find lots of info if you search cam chain tensioner on this board or the old bandit board.

MikeD2001 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2006, 02:40:58 AM »

First off, thank you for the replies!

Well, I think I dodged that initial bullet but the problem is, I think I pistol whipped myself! I have taken the beast halfway apart and have enjoyed an immense learning experience in my free time for the past few days. With the cam chain tensioner out, I attempted to line up the cams to set the timing. Unfortunately in my ignorance, my chain jumped a few teeth on both sprockets and for the longest while I couldn't figure out why the cams wouldn't line up!

After a series of semi-comical mis-haps, I believe I have the cams lined up correctly. Unfortunately, I have had yet another mishap: one of the exhaust cam journals broke while I was tightening it down (not from over torqueing! It was a good 1/4 inch from seating when it broke!).

http://www.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=35129455/PictureID=1073752714/a=41464894_41464894/t_=41464894

Edit: I just read another thread about broken journals... I am going to cry now.

I have also since realized that I have the Holeshot 5 degree advancer on my signal generator and that it is highly recommended that I reinstall the stocker to correctly set the timing.

http://www.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=35129455/PictureID=1073749491/a=41464894_41464894/t_=41464894

Unfortunately, the former owner did not include that piece with my bike. I have included a few pics to help verify that I am on the right track. Any suggestions for setting the timing sans the stock sig. generator would be greatly appreciated. As I mentioned, I am extremely ignorant and have only the foggiest of clues about what I'm doing. Thus, I will include the former owner installed the cams of an '89 GSXR 1100 that are degreed at 104 if it is of any significance to this operation. Thank you very much for your time and happy riding!

We finally have a break from the Oregon winter rain this week, and I may have to be committed if I am unable to take advantage of it

See you all when I'm released in 2020!

-Mike D

Bob Holland · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2006, 02:13:10 PM »

The part that broke is a cam cap, and it is Line Bored to fit the head that it is on. I don't think that Suzuki sells this apart from the head.
I have heard of people buying used ones, and then having it line bored.
If it doesn't fit right, when you tighten it down, you can't turn the cam.

MikeD2001 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2006, 09:26:14 PM »

Thanks for the reply BHolland.... I'm on my way to the local dealer to see what info they have for me... I read your's and other's ideas in the FAQ thread:

http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=1498

I think I'm gonna try contacting some local aviation shops. Thanks.

Bazza · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2006, 03:12:15 AM »

Mike:

Your not going to like what the dealer tells you. That part is only available with the purchase of a new cylinder head. As the others said, they are all machined to fit each individual head. Another option is to look for a used cylinder head.

As a last resort, you may want to try a product called JB Weld to repair it. It is an epoxy metal repair resin, and it is regularily used to fix cracked engine blocks. I can say it is the best repair resin on the planet. If you take your time, I am sure a JB weld repair would hold well here if done right.

kedeg_97B12 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:45:35 AM »

You don't need to swap advancers. TDC is the same on both. If it is Dale's it has TDC markings on it.

smooth operator · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2006, 08:58:14 PM »

smooth operator · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2006, 09:07:04 PM »

I can get a post through!
Anyhow, I saftey wired my cam tensioner bolt, that way I know it can't come loose. Here in the land of ice and snow we have alot of down time. Saftey wireing,being required for track duty, but its also a good thing for long hauls as well. It gives you a chance to go over everything, clean up your nuts and bolts,loc-tite or saftey wire everything. On the body work I use a dab of silicone on the clips.

MikeD2001 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:08:17 PM »

Hey guys, thanks for the additional info and tips. The dealer parts guy wasn't much help, but he sent me to talk to the service manager. He was very cool. He told me basically the same, but that he knew a guy that could weld it if anybody could. So I get a hold of this guy, drive about 10 miles out of town and talk to him. Basically, he said the part was so small, in all likelyhood, he would ruin it. Looking at the break, he and I agreed it was probably best not to weld and to put it back in, sans the two small broken pieces. There appeared to be enough of the top of the journal where the bolt head contacts to securely hold the journal in place. As far as the timing issue... I'm a dumbass... I took for granted the cylinder order (had them reveresed, #1 being closest to timing rotor!"). So, I got my exhaust cam back in, then snapped a journal bolt with my new racheting torque wrench! SOB! Luckily it was only part way in, so I was able to turn it out with a small flathead. Found a used one at cycle yard. Finally, got it to TDC and verified lobe positions for correct timing. Then I managed to snap an aluminum Sims & Rohm valve cover bolt with my new best friend, the torque wrench! The previous owner had installed these. I wondered why there was one stocker left :) Now there's two. I bought the 3/8" drive torque, but apparently I need to find a 1/4" for these delicate bolts. I've resorted to torqueing by feel on these friggin things. Arrr! Got a stocker at the same yard, thank God! Blah blah blah... if you made it through all that, you deserve a medal. Now, I have an idle problem. After it appears to warm up, I adjust the idle to about 1300 rpms. Then, after a bit of riding, the idle seems to want to sit increasingly higher. At the end of my riding yesterday, it was idling around 3000. According to my info supplied by the one previous owner, the bike has a factory stage 1 jet kit and air box mod (about a 3-4" square hole), along with a holshot midpipe and a slip-on carbon fiber M4 muffler. While I was doing the timing stuff, I bought a new inline fuel filter similiar to the one I removed (between the tank and the carbs) and a new OEM air filter, seemingly indentical to the one I replaced. I have been studying this issue on the board here and elsewhere, but any suggestions would be great. I also plan on removing my valve cover again shortly to inspect how my injured journal is holding up. Thanks again, guys, hand happy riding.

-Mike
P.S. It sure was nice to ride, even if my bike ran kinda crappy :)