Author Topic: Flaky Starter (Read 6060 times)

Sven · « **on:** August 02, 2005, 08:56:53 PM »

I don't know if this is related to the recent threads on starter nuts, because I am not having any odd noises.

Sunday while out and about, I stopped and when I went to restart, sidestand up, bike in neutral, key and kill switch on, the engine was quiet, although the lights came on. It was like when you forget to raise the sidestand, so I raised and lowered it a couple times, but nothing. Went ahead and put it in gear and it started immediately like normal.

The rest of Sunday and Monday were perfect. Tuesday to work is fine. Tuesday leaving work, all the same symptoms except the bike was already in gear. I nudged it forward an inch and suddenly it was ready to start.

It doesn't seem like a battery problem, more like the the sidestand interlock, kill swtich or ignition key is saying "no-go!". At one time I had a lot of gook around the sidestand interlock switch, so I suspected that, but it was clean and I gave it a shot of lube Sunday when I got home from the 1st incident.

So...what could be causing this? Apparently, a slight movement of the bike (putting it in gear, or rolling it forward a tiny bit) is all that's needed to resolve the problem FOR NOW. Where is this problem headed?

land_shark · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2005, 09:34:59 PM »

do you get indicator lights when you turn the key on?

Sven · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2005, 11:17:52 PM »

Yeah, the lights come on, the needles sweep, etc. It just didn't start, as if you had the sidestand down. No noises.

land_shark · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2005, 11:30:43 PM »

the reason I asked, I've had loose battery terminals that resulted in much flakiness. Looked like a dead battery, but if I hopped up and down on it, I could get it to light up and start... Sounds like it's definitely not your problem here. Sorry I can't be of more help.

jwalters · « **Reply #4 on:** August 03, 2005, 12:04:07 AM »

A good starting point would be to look at the blue and grey wiring harnesses by your front headlight. Look for corroded terminals within these connectors. They are notorious for going bad. It would also be a good place to start diagnosing your ignition switch, etc.

From the way you described the speedo gauge (having a needle sweep), you have a 2nd gen bandit, but a 600 or 1200? If you would like I could scan and send you the wiring diagrams to help you out a bit.

jesse

Oldschooler · « **Reply #5 on:** August 03, 2005, 02:21:47 AM »

Hey Sven,

I have a random issue with my bike doing the sam thing. I have a 1G 600s. When I got it someone had disconected the clutch position switch on the clutch handle. The put a jumper in under the cowling where that wire conects to two others. I never figured out why they did that. I removed the jumper and reconected it.

Ever since then, I get that random no start. Key is on, all lights are on, kill switch is in the run position, kickstatnds up, bike in nuteral, but it does nothing, like I never even hit the start button. I found that if I pull in nice and hard on the clutch lever it fires right up. This is very random for me, maybe two to three times a month. I remeber to squeeze harder and it starts right up. I guess this is why that switch was jumped. It's such a small problem I've never bothered to replace the switch.

You might look at that. Like I said I have a 1G 600s. I followed the wire up to the front of the coweling and found where it plugged into two wires. If pulling harder on your clutch lever doesn't work, try jumping the switch.

Thats what it was for me anyway.

Good luck with it.

Sven · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2005, 07:59:19 AM »

Yeah, it's a 2nd gen B12.

Jesse, I think the wiring info is in the Clymer book, so I'll check and if not, I'll take you up on your offer. Thanks.

jfudo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2005, 02:41:46 PM »

Is there a started solenoid on these bikes? I had a very similar problem on my old honda, luckily the solenoid is right there on the side of the bike. A little tap on it did the trick. If not, I carried a piece of wire to jump across it (immediate startup at that point, no button push, make sure it isn't in gear). Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

Sven · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2005, 06:02:39 PM »

OK, it happened again today when leaving work. Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday...so I guess Saturday is next?

Raised sidestand, turned key, turned on kill switch, needles swept, lights flashed, but bike no start and no noise, all like described before. It was still in 1st gear from when I parked this AM. Kicked it up to neutral and still no start. Rolled it forward a couple inches, and still no start. Kicked it back down to first and it started immediately.

Does that give you more to go on to solve this flaky starting mystery:?:

PeteSC · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2005, 06:52:47 PM »

There are two safety switches that connect to the starter.....and will let everything 'light up', but won't let the bike start.

One is on the clutch lever,(won't let you start without the clutch lever pulled in), the other the sidestand.

While you're checking wiring in general, I'd check both of these switches.

I had to replace the clutch lever switch on my '99, but it went out immediately....didn't show any symptoms before hand.
The part is like $12.
Barring any obvious wiring problems, I'd check both switches, first.

Sven · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2005, 11:35:10 AM »

Here's where I'm gonna sound really dumb, but--if I look at the swtich on the master cylinder and make sure it's connected tightly, and follow it and ensure it's connected well elsewhere, is there anything else I can do to "check" it out other than order a replacement part and see if that works?

I don't want to pin all my hopes on that being the solution.

Last night I had incidnet number for, and I had to kick it in and out of gear a couple times to get it to start. That may mean it's getting worse, or it may not.

land_shark · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2005, 11:44:22 AM »

Could there be an issue with the signal generator? (link to anatomy on: www.ronayers.com)

I don't totally understand how the signal generator works, so it's just a stab. Feel free to explain why or why this may not be the culprit, I'm here to learn.

Red01 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2005, 03:11:58 PM »

When it is acting up, will it start if you push start it? If so, that will rule out anything in the ignition circuit (including the signal generator - which sends a signal to the ignition box to tell it when to fire the plugs).

You can check the clutch and sidestand switches with a multimeter or test light. If you don't have access to either, you can jump them to defeat them.

My long distance guesstimate is one of these two switches is going intermittant on you.

Sven · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2005, 07:10:10 PM »

I owe y'all an update, so here goes:

Thursday evening was incident #4, and again, I got it to start by just kicking it into and out of gear and re-squeezing the clutch lever. So that would lead me to think that the sidestand interrupt switch is not the issue.

Saturday, I visually inspected the clutch lever switch. One of the contacts was not pushed on as far as the other, so I made sure both were on fully and hoped that would be it. But I also ordered a swtich which, as Pete said, is under $12.

Sunday when leaving the Pyramid (I am a docent volunteer for The Art of The Motorcycle), I *swear* my initial attempt to start didn't work. But the 2nd attempt did with no problem. So...I still don't know. Let's call that incident #4.5 for now.

As for the multimeter, my dear father tried to teach me how to use one many years ago, but my brain has long ago flushed that knowledge. I did buy an inexpensive one Saturday night, so I will still try to test that out and will share what I discover.

Thanks for all the feedback and guidance to-date!

Sven · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2005, 08:05:30 PM »

A few more thoughts questions, in my "Complete Idiots/For Dummies" Mode:

1) The switch at the clutch lever says "Hey, I've been compressed. It doens't matter if the transmission is in neutral or not, let the bike start."

2) The switch at the sidestand says "Hey, the sidestand is up, it doesn't matter if the transmission is in neutral or not, let the bike start."

3) Meanwhile, something else is saying "Hey, the transmission is in neutral, so I don't care about the position of the clutch lever or the sidestand, let the bike start."

That last point is what I am wondering about: could that be what is flaky? And where is that located? Is that the "neutral safety switch" that is on my Dad's Honda?