HELP! - Wet Plugs, Sluggish Running, looking for answer.

[p_gauthi]

HI,
I've got a intermittent problem which has been plaguing my mind for a while, and after various searches, investigations, readings on this board, I have yet to come to a conclusion which satisfies .... so:....

Here's the story.

I have a '01 bandit 600. 40,000 miles on it.
Everything is stock (as far as fuel, oil, exhaust is concerned).

About 2 months ago, I added some oil, and I think I overfilled the level.

Started noticing some sluggish running on some days. The engine felt like it was running much hotter than usual.

The problem would go away sometimes after letting the bike sit. I had even done a couple long runs with the bike and no problems. However, sometimes it would take only 10 mins to get sluggish.

I decided to drain some oil, and ended up losing it all, so replaced with non-motorcycle specific oil.

Rode the bike like this for another 3 weeks, and I am still riding now. The problem has persisted, for the most part.

NOW,

I've pulled the plugs, and the 2/3 plugs are wet. They are wet on the threads and near the spark gap, and as well, it seems like there is some wetness on the ceramic and a bit in the chamber where the wire goes.

I say wet, and not wet with oil or fuel, because i'm not sure. I suspect it is oil though, from its color, viscosity, etc.

Also, there has been oil in the airbox. From reading earlier posts, i expect it came from the breather overflowing. This oil in the airbox happens after the sluggish riding.

So, I have a few conjectures:

1. Overfilling the oil increased pressure in the crankcase, letting oil past the piston rings to the combustion chamber. This caused wet plugs, and also increased pressure led to oil in the airbox.

 - problem with this is, wouldn't the issue be solved once I have rectified the oil overfill. But, now that the oil is at a proper level, plugs still seem wet.

2. Blew some seals/o-rings when the pressure was high in the crankcase. This leads to the constant problem of oil in the airbox or oil leaking into the spark plug holes.

 - Specifically, i'm directing attention at the gaskets which seal the spark plug holes between the valve cover and cylinder head. There seems to be oil leaking from the cylinder head gasket in front, but I have read that there is an oil overflow drain from the spark plug holes to the front of the engine at the cylinder head, which could be mistaken for a cylinder head gasket leak.

3. Engine is old, piston rings are questionable, and overfilling the oil exacerbated the problem. Oil is now running past the piston rings into the combustion chamber.

 - Don't want to believe this, but seems more likely.

4. Oil i'm using now is the wrong grade, or improper, and by changing it I'll be alright

 - Direct rationalization for not believing no.3

Lastly, I had recently cleaned the air filter. It hadn't been cleaned in a long time, and seems to have given the engine back some power.

I hope some light can be shed on this problem. I'm planning on a long road trip within the week, and I'm becoming nervous about the piston ring leaking.

I would appreciate an estimation of my problems and reasonable solutions. And suggestions of weather a long road trip is advisable given the different possibilities.

Thank you..!!!!

[Red01]

Did you clean or replace the wet plugs?
Should be pretty easy to tell if they're wet from fuel or oil by smell and texture of the fluid they're wet with.

1. seems reasonable, but as you say, once corrected, it would have gone away.

2. is not likely. There really isn't any seal you could blow that would cause an oily airbox - besides the pistons' rings.

3. is possible. Leaking valve stem seals could also cause oil to leak into the combustion chamber and lead to oil consumption. (Valve seals alone wouldn't get any oil in the airbox.)

4. is not too likely... unless you're WAAY off.

Another idea is as the engine warms up, the coil that supplies spark to cylinders 2 & 3 starts breaking down a bit and the spark gets weak to non-existant and you get get the power loss from that. If this is the case, your plugs would be wet from fuel.

Some oil in the airbox from the breather system is normal. This will get worse as the engine wears and you get more blowby past the rings.

[p_gauthi]

well, cleaned the plugs today, went for a ride, everything nice and smooth-like... though, i'm still expecting the problem to re-manifest itself sometime soon..

still can't stick the problem of what the wetness is... i guess its the wetness behind my ears, since the oil/gas thing is sending me for a loop.... i smell it, kinda  touch it.. guess that its oil, then think .. maybe not... i'm going to get a teaspoon of each and blindfold myself and solve this once and for all. problem is...wouldn't oil in the combustion chamber end up smellin' a little like gas..??

anyway,
new plugs are on order. New air filter too. somehow, i believe this may change things. I hope.

Last question:
If it is the piston rings, how long can I go on riding like this..??

Is it right to say, that the only immediate consequences are higher oil consumption rate, higher combustion temperature [=overheating], lower fuel efficiency, and intermittent sluggish riding..?

I'm not quite equipped, knowledgeable or do i have enough $$ to take on an overhaul at this point.

Hoping that good fortune prevails,
P

[Red01]

Last question:
If it is the piston rings, how long can I go on riding like this..??

Until it smokes so bad you get a ticket for pollution or you tire of topping off the oil every time you get gas or start oil fouling plugs so often you're tired of dealing with it.

[p_gauthi]

perfect.
this i can do.
thanks paul.
P

[pmackie]

Once you change the plugs and air filter you will be in a better position to determine if you have a problem.

If you have worn rings or bad valve seals, you will have plugs that look like they have carbon buildup on them. A plugged air filter, overly rich jetting, or bad coils will cause the plug ceramics to turn dark brown very quickly.

Make sure you torque the plugs correctly, drain any surplus oil from the airbox, check all of your plug and coil connections.

[H2RICK]

You may also want to try a couple of other things:
1) remove and clean the airbox thoroughly. Wash it in hot soapy water, if necessary. Residual oil in there will continue to be sucked into the engine, especially when you first crack the throttle under hard acceleration, and this aerosol oil will continue make the bike run rich and mess up your plugs. It can also block/contaminate your air filter worsening your rich running problem.
2) also make sure your PCV breather drain line is clean. This is the large hose on the R/H side below the frame rail just forward of the brake lever. There SHOULD be a plug in the end of this line with a wire clip holding it in place. Slide the clip up the hose and gently twist the plug out of the hose. Have a container ready to catch any condensed oil and water that is stored in there. You SHOULD do this every time you change the oil, anyway.
Just as an aside, if a plug is FUEL fouled, the fuel will usually evaporate relatively quickly (~ 2 or 3 minutes) after you pull the plug out to inspect it.....
whereas if a plug is OIL fouled, the oil will NOT evaporate, even after 30 minutes or so.