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Author Topic: Crossjetting Pilots?  (Read 4357 times)

Offline rider123

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« on: August 29, 2006, 03:45:47 PM »
Well my Number 4 cylinder is still way too rich with the 17.5 pilot in there. I wonder if it's possible to stick the 15 back in there and have all the rest 17.5 (other 3 cylinders are good). I know you can do that with main jets but what about pilot jets? I dropped the float bowl and the float height is good. It's very weird that one cylinder would be so crazily richer than the other 3 which are dead on.
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2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Bob Holland

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2006, 05:50:37 PM »
do a compression check on all 4 cylinders to make sure that you don't have another problem with that one cylinder.
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Offline andrewsw

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2006, 06:28:18 PM »
maybe you have air leaks on the other 3? just a thought.
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Offline gearset01

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Rich ?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 07:09:37 AM »
I would make sure its not just idleing rich, Take it out and run it at say 8-9 grand for a couple of minutes shut it right down and pull the plug.
Is it possible that its larger than a 17.5 pilot in there. Those things could be mixed up. Where did they come from. When you shimmed the needles did you make sure there was spring there not binding. I noticed that the R S washers were stamped and concave in one direction, so I stacked them all the same. Check the choke operation if this is loading during idle only. I would make sure that you know exactly when its happening and go from there. If you didnt have a problem before you started making changes.
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Offline PaulVS

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 09:54:57 AM »
Check your float level on that cylinder.
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Offline gearset01

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 01:13:59 PM »
Quote from: PaulVS
Check your float level on that cylinder.

I think his post states that he started there, he posted before that he thought he fixed it there that it was hung up ?
Maybe isolating on which circuit low or high its happening will reduce the troubleshooting.
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Offline rider123

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 01:23:57 PM »
Float level is good, compression is good(new bike). The weird thing is the other 3 cylinders are perfect. Before the Holeshot went in Number 4 was perfect. I took a shim off that cylinder already with no effect. I made sure today that the choke bar was fully seated and I bent the floats down a bit to raise float height which seemed to help slightly. It just really bizarre it would just suddenly go wonky.
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2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline rider123

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 01:24:34 PM »
Float level is good, compression is good(new bike). The weird thing is the other 3 cylinders are perfect. Before the Holeshot went in Number 4 was perfect. I took a shim off that cylinder already with no measureable effect. I made sure today that the choke bar was fully seated and I bent the floats down a bit to raise float height which seemed to help slightly. It just really bizarre it would just suddenly go wonky. I've been trying to call dale but his line is busy when I get the chance to call.
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2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline 2005B12S

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 01:52:24 PM »
I would take all the jetting out of #4 carb and swap it with #1 carb. Swaping outside to outside cylinders should give the best comparison.

If the problem follows, then its in the jetting. If it does not follow, then its cylinder and or carb body related.

Also, you did not say if you are running pods or the airbox. Either way I would also check for any intake air blockage.


Good Luck, Ed.
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Offline rider123

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2006, 01:56:30 PM »
Stage 1 Airbox.

Will do this weekend. I'm not sure how it could be an air blockage since I'm using the airbox and all the carbs are attached to it but I'll check anyway.

THe jetting for all cylinders is the same so I'm not sure if swapping it out will have any effect but I may try it anyway. I have a feeling it's a float height or choke not closing problem. For that much fuel to get in there it would be impossible on jetting alone considering the other cylinders are perfect.
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2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline gearset01

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Running rich
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2006, 03:36:56 PM »
Did you narrow it down to one of the circuits or is it happening all the time ?
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Offline 2005B12S

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2006, 06:27:37 PM »
Quote
Stage 1 Airbox.

Will do this weekend. I'm not sure how it could be an air blockage since I'm using the airbox and all the carbs are attached to it but I'll check anyway.

THe jetting for all cylinders is the same so I'm not sure if swapping it out will have any effect but I may try it anyway. I have a feeling it's a float height or choke not closing problem. For that much fuel to get in there it would be impossible on jetting alone considering the other cylinders are perfect.



You are probably right, I thought the float heights and choke were already checked good.  

I was thinking you could have a bad or incorrect jet/needle/shim in the #4 carb. If thats the case swapping the jetting will transfer the problem to another cylinder. Either way it eliminates jetting as the culprit.

Also I was thinking that not enough air would cause a rich condition, its a long shot but an obstruction/blockage in the air track could cause this.

Good Luck, Ed.
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2005 GSF1200SZ
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1992 900SS

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Offline chupacabra

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2006, 07:00:13 AM »
Take a closer look at the needle, seat and float, maybe move those to the #1 carb. It won't matter what the float height is set to if the needle or seat are bad.
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Offline rider123

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Crossjetting Pilots?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2006, 07:03:22 PM »
Well last night I pulled ALL the shims off number 4 and I noticed a few things.

One it was better(of course) however anything over 2500 rpm or so when it gets on the mains it becomes slightly lean and some slight popping and slight jerkyness can be felt when just cruising around. So I'm thinking it probably is the pilot jets. I turned the mixture screws to 2 turns out from lightly seated and it idles well still with good response untill you get on the mains, which due to there not being any shims at all suddenly leans it out. So what I'm going to do is put the shims back on there and turn in the mixture screw accordingly and see if that happens. After a highway ride the plug is noticably less black so I'm thinking it's probably a low speed circuit issue. I still have the 15's if I have to pop them back in there. I guess it's not totally out of the question as some people have had their pilots stock all set crazily to make the mixture even. One guy even said one of his mixture screws were completely turned in!  :shock:  I'm going to put the shims back and see what I can do with the mixture screw. If it turns out that I'm like 1 or 1 1/2 turns out from lightly seated I'll pop the 15 back in there for that cylinder.
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2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline gearset01

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Pilots ???
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2006, 06:40:33 PM »
Good for you nice troubleshooting, glad you didnt do the keep changing stuff till its fixed routine. Im sitting here looking at my 17.5 and 20 pilots with reading glasses and they are identical looking. If I try very hard I can just make out the differances in the very very small markings. I  aint saying they're wrong but I am saying it would be an easy mix up. And finally let me say that even if its marked as a size I wouldnt be surprised if its got a manufacturer defect and is sized wrong for the ID Those things are churned out of the manufacturer like so many hot cakes they probably test 1 in every 1000. Test the pilot before replacing it with a 15 you will be happier.
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