Rain ride problem

[Seva]

Ive got a bit of a problem when i ride in rain. Apparently, all the water that gets on ignition coils, interrupts electricity and bike starts to lose rpms, isnt as responsive and eventually stalls if choke isnt on.

Do you have any advice how to fix this problem? I cant wrap them with tape since they would probably overheat, right?

[rider123]

Do you have K&N type pods? Could be the pods are getting wet starving the engine of air. Are you sure it's the coils? If the spark is weak drowning the engine with fuel would just kill it. If it was an electrical fault due to water it would just kill the engine regardless of how much fuel is dumped into the cylinders.

Is your airbox opened up and are you using a K&N filter? The K&N type filters use cotton instead of paper so as soon as it starts getting wet it flows less and less. The ignition coils are well insulated underneath the fuel tank and the engine casing. Unless the rain is moving sideways and horizontal against the bike no rain would get in there. I guess it's theoretically possible but highly unlikely. Sound to me like your air filter is progressively getting wetter and wetter robbing performance. My friend had the same problem with his Katana with pods. He eventually rigged up some slip on rain shields to ride in wet weather.

If you wanted to temporarily wrap them up it won't do any harm but the better idea is put some Vaseline on the connections coming from the coils, coat it well so any water just sloughs off and doesn't penetrate the leads. Hell if you really want to be thorough you could coat the coils themselves in a light coat of Vaseline to be really safe, but before gunking up electrical components check to see if your airfilter getting progressivly wetter isn't the problem.

[pmackie]

eventually stalls if choke isnt on.

Hey Seva, if this is true, then it doesn't sound like a spark issue. It sounds more like water being picked up in the airbox or carbs. Check a couple of things

Make sure the carb vent hoses and overflow hoses are properly connected and routed per stock drawings, same with airbox drain hoses. Missing or wrongly routed hoses can cause water to be forced up into the airbox or carb bowls.

As 123 suggested, when you have the problem, pull the air filter and inspect and also check the airbox for water, and drain the float bowls of the carbs to see if you have any water collecting.

This thread shows how to drain the float bowls:

http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=13182.msg103819#msg103819

[Seva]

This is what I did yesterday: removed the gas tank and saw that ignition coils were dirty- dry, dirty raindrops stains on them. Afterwards i started the bike, let it warm up for a bit and then i poured water on ignition coils. After maybe 30 seconds, rpms dropped under 1000, it wasnt as responsive suddenly and after id give gas, it would "drown" and stall. So i think its the ignition coil problem, not the air filter problem (i dont have K&N, i boght OEM filter 500 km ago).

Ignition coils definetely get water, from underneath and also from the gap between the tank and frame.

[rider123]

Well if you want you could get some of the biggest shrink wrap you can find and put it around the coils and leads end or try the Vaseline trick. I hope you didn't pour too much water on there!   Did the water get in between the coils and the leads? That would be what would cause the most problems. You could probably unscrew the leads and get some shrink wrap to cover the gap up. Take a look at the leads and make sure they have not rusted to shit. It's weird your having this problem. I've ridden in torrential rain and underneath my tank where the coils are is never touched. Maybe your missing the front rubber bumper on the fuel tank or something so there is a big gap now.

My guess since there was a 30 second delay before the coils went wonky is that it took that long to penetrate the gap between the spark plug leads and the coil itself. Try the test again with a coating of Vaseline, or shrink wrap tubing in the gap between the leads and the coils and see if it helps.

Do you have the naked Bandit or the fared one?

[Seva]

This is the model: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/864/31122011061.jpg/ Naked, no rubber. Today, i put some silicone , we'll see did it help. Im not sure where the water comes- where the power comes to ignition coils or where the exit is for spark plug cables.

Theres no rust, but evidently the water gets to the coils. Its definitely a stupid problem, dont know why japanese engineers didnt predict this kind of problem :)

[rider123]

This is the first time I've heard it for this bike, Naked or otherwise. You could try using some silicone on both entrances and exits of the coil. There is nothing in the coil that is user serviceable. If you use something soft(like silicone) that can be ripped away if the coil needs replacing you should be fine. My guess is it's getting between the coil and the spark plug leads which would be the largest gap and where you would feel the most power lost, and the easiest for water to penetrate. If it was before going into the coil chances are you'd have other electrical anomalies like flickering lights, fuses blowing etc.

If it's sealed with silicone chances are the coils with outlast the rest of the bike so go crazy if you like. If you want coat the entire coil with a light coat of Vaseline after you've sealed it, it may be a bit overkill but it will guarantee that the water sloughs off and doesn't accumulate. Just make sure it's 100% dry before you seal it. If you want spray some contact cleaner on all the contacts before sealing it.

[Seva]

No light flickering, no nothing like that. I bought the bike in november, it wasnt used for about a year. The carbs need cleaning- i have an unstable idle rpm. And that can be the coil problem or dirty carbs... Its supposed to rain on Tuesday, so if i get caught, ill see did the silicone help or not...

[rider123]

I'm not sure what you have in Serbia but if you can get some "Seafoam" fuel/carb cleaner(or equivalent) and some fresh gas and run it through the carbs with a nice high speed run on the highway it will probably fix all that ails you. Also if you'd like you can do an "Italian tune up" whereby you warm up the bike on the centre stand and take the seat and document tray off and rev the bike up to 5000 or 6000 RPM then let go of the throttle and put your hand over the air intake snorkle back down to idle then do it again a few times. What this does is create a shitload of vacuum which will usually suck up any crud or water in the floatbowls and clear out the carbs.

In case this doesn't translate well. What "Seafoam" is an additive you add to the gasoline which will help break up any gummy deposits of bad fuel in the fuel system. It's best to fresh gas and ride around fast to get the fuel flowing really fast, a good highway run for an hour or two is usually enough. "Seafoam" is just a commercial name for it. It may be called "carb and fuel injector cleaner fuel additive" or something. You add say 100ml to 10L of fuel.

Since you're in Eastern Europe maybe there is some sort of crazy magic carb/fuel system cleaner made by disgraced Chernobyl nuclear scientists that we don't get in Canada which work way better than what we have  . The reason most people use the "Seafoam" is that it's gentle enough to use with rubber carb parts, and it's even good for de-gunking crank cases etc. This Seafoam stuff has been around for years so it has a good track record of not killing carbs with too harsh of a substance.

Here is a link so you can read what it does and get the Serbian/European equivalent

http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-use-sea-foam-motor-treatment.html

After you've run a couple of fuel tanks full of the fuel/Seafoam(or whatever) through, you should probably do a carb sync. The uneven idle may be because the bike has never had a carb sync ever, who knows, if you bought it used. What a carb sync does is make sure all the cylinders are pulling the same amount of power by adjusting the throttle butterfly valves. You can do it yourself it's not that hard. You can rig up a homemade menometer and adjust it yourself, but thats another topic. If you want to know how to do it yourself just respond and I'll walk you through it, as long as you can turn a screw its not that hard and saves you $100 instead of taking it to a shop to get done. See what happens after a high speed run, it may just fix itself.

What year and CC is your bike?(that pic is a 2000 B12) How do the plugs look? I imagine they may be gunked up from dying due to the coils but a long highway drive at high speeds/rpm will fix that. You'd be suprised how many "problem" bikes are cured with a couple of hours at 150Km/h and a little Seafoam.(or equivalent)

[Seva]

Thanks for the long post :) In this tank, i poured half of the bottle of Sonax carb cleaner, but since its january, i cant really drive 150 km/h on highway or ill get pneumonia since its about +2 C degrees :) Nope, no magical Chernobyl carbureutor cleaner unfortunately. Not yet :)

I can try this Italian metod, see whether it helps. Since Ive never before taken off carbs, i wouldnt try syncronizing them. I have a friend of a friend that does that, so when temperature rises, ill go to him for carb cleaning and syncinem them (an hour drive).

Its the 1996 B6.

[rider123]

That's a good bike. Since you bought it used I know it's a bummer but doing these little things will help you. The problem is God knows what the hell the previous owner did or did not do. Carb synchronization doesn't require you take off the carbs but since you have a friend that can do it you should be good. If you like drain the floatbowls(all 4) before you try the "Italian tune up" you'll get maximum effect. If you look at the carbs there should be a spigot with a brass screw on the sides of the carbs at the bottom of the floatbowls. Put a cup or something underneath to catch the fuel and carefully unscrew the screws until fuel comes out. Don't worry only a 100 ml or so will come out. Make sure the petcock is not on "prime" unless you like a gasoline waterfall. Do this for each of the carbs so any water or bits of shit flow out of the bottom of the float bowls.

Just be sure your turning the right screw, not the mixture screws but the float drain screws.

Here is a pic of your carbs:
http://www.bikebandit.com/1996-suzuki-gsf600st-bandit/o/m6141#sch246855

Number 39 in the schematic is the drain plug. DO NOT UNSCREW 32 those are the pilot mixture screws. Since the drain plug screws are horizontal to the bike I doubt you will mix them up. Since they are soft brass don't go totally jihad tightening them up. Nice and snug is fine don't feel you have to stand on the screwdriver or anything to tighten them. Since water is heavier than gasoline the water will come out before the gasoline as it will collect in the bottom of the bowls when stopped. Take a look to see if the fuel that comes out, is it cloudy? Does it have bits of shit in it? I use a 500ml clear water bottle so I can look at it, it should be a light straw colour.

Here I made a shit picture of where the drain screws are, sorry this is all I could get from the internet but you can see where the drain screw is still. They are on the outside of all the carbs.

[Seva]

I did that, about 2 weeks ago. Some red dust came out (the tank is full of rust), but didnt notice the water - although i didnt drain it in the cup but in a rag. Its not my first bike, i know a little bit of mechanics, but ive never opened the engine or the carbs. Pretty much everything else i did - also didnt open the forks.

[rider123]

Then you should be good with the cleaner and highspeed run. If not then the jets will have to come out and thats probably best done in the spring like you said. Good luck! If you want to really get rid of the rust in the tank(very good idea) you can take it off and drain it and take the petcock out. Then tape up the petcock hole and grab some small ball bearings and throw some in the tank when it's empty. Shake the shit out of it so that the ball bearings scrub the inside of the tank then drain the ball bearings out and wash out the rust bits with a bit of gasoline. Or if you use water, make sure you fill the tank right up quickly afterwards so that the inside just won't rust out again.  If you don't want to put ball bearings in there you can do a pretty good job with a coat hanger or some other sort of semi-flexible wire to scrape the shit out of there. You should be able to get most of the shit out without too much trouble. Just be sure to rinse it out with a bit of gasoline so that the rust flecks are not just sitting in the tank. If you do use the ball bearing method count how many you put in there so you can count how many come out. You don't need many say 10 or 20 3mm balls should do it. Some people use marbles but they are glass and may chip. If you don't clean the tank the carbs will just keep gumming up with rust flecks.

It sounds like alot of work but its not, maybe an hour or two tops if your dicking around. You may want to invest in a fuel filter. It shouldn't have any rust at all but the previous owner probably didn't know what the phuck he was doing and let it sit and rot. He probably bought the bike to look "cool" then half wrecked it. We see that alot here.

Now that I read your post again. You put half a bottle of carb cleaner in the tank? You sure thats the recommended amount? If you put too much in your bike will run like shit. You should only put in what's recomended ie 100ml per 10L or whatever. If you think you put too much in go and top up the tank to dilute it. If there is too much in there it's not going to help that uneven idle any. The front forks are sealed so I wouldn't bother unless you have some handling problems or leaky fork seals.

[Seva]

I did the cleaning of a tank with some small rocks and some antirust product. It did help, but still, its not close to perfect. I have a fuel filter, so thats not the issue. Sonax cleaner says- 250ml in 40-60 lit tank. Bandit has 19 L so i poured a little less than half.

[rider123]

Well you may have to bite the bullet and Kreem the inside of the tank. What Kreme is is basically a plastic coating that you put on the inside of the tank and it drys and covers the rust. I've had to do this on an old GS400 I bought it's not that bad to do but I'm not sure if you can get it in Serbia.

Here is a pic:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/72/7407/ITEM/Kreem-Fuel-Tank-Liner.aspx

Stuff works great though. Completely coats the inside of the tank and stops the rust cold. But its a little messy so go crazy with putting newspapers down. And you want to probably wear a mask the shit is nasty otherwise you'll end up like a Chernobyl scientist.   No deaths from asphyxiation please! You can get a kit which really fixes it up for around $50 which is a 3 step process which is a permanent fix. I didn't bother because the bike was only $600 and I'm a cheap bastard. But since your bike is so much better than mine was I would spring for the $50 and do it properly if I was in your shoes. It beats forking over $400 for a new tank and it is fixed permanently.

If you're doing the full treatment I would be even more careful though 1 of the steps is to use a weak solution of acid to dissolve the rust in there. Be carefull of the exterior of the tank when using the acid and yourself. I don't want to see any replies like this:

RiDEer1233333 YoU BaStarDD! I UsED yOuR sTuFF and iTT BUrnneD me!! AhhaAHAhhAaaaaaHHFFH!

Seva? Are you there buddy?? Call an ambulance Seva! SEEVVAAAA!

Wear gloves, put condoms over your head, anything. That shit burns and scars. So please BE CAREFUL.