Author Topic: true or false ? (Read 9225 times)

slo coach · « **on:** August 28, 2005, 06:33:21 AM »

on a 2 G 1200 if you pipe,rejet. airbox,snorkel out,needle it ,you will only get .3 of a second better through the 1/4 mile...

yes or no..

slo coach

Bob Holland · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2005, 10:39:55 PM »

Take it from a long time dragracer, gains are hard to come by, if you gain .3, you've done good. People that claim 15 to 20 horsepower on an exhaust change are fooling themselves. It takes bigger, higher compression pistons, bigger valves, ported head, and bigger lift cams, to get any real horsepower gains. My costs were around $100.00 per 1 hp, or $ 5,000 for 50 hp. That is figuring in labor cost of $2,000 for my labor.

PeteSC · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2005, 06:00:08 AM »

I guess there are too many lying dynos out there, then, Bill!

I never had my bike dynoed when it was stock. I had it dynoed at a portable dyno when it just had a slipon, and wasn't jetted. I think it was 107 HP. (Been so long, I don't remember exactly.)
I think the '99 1200 was somewhere under 100 hp stock.

When I had my jet kit installed by a local tuner, the bike dynoed at 117.8 HP. That's with a K and N filter, Ignition advancer, Holeshot exhaust and jet kit.

From what I can tell, the first 15-20 HP extra on the Bandit12 are the cheap ones, whatever you try to squeeze out beyond that gets expensive.

Bob Holland · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2005, 02:42:17 PM »

Quote from: "PeteSC"

I guess there are too many lying dynos out there, then, Bill!

I never had my bike dynoed when it was stock. I had it dynoed at a portable dyno when it just had a slipon, and wasn't jetted. I think it was 107 HP. (Been so long, I don't remember exactly.)
I think the '99 1200 was somewhere under 100 hp stock.

When I had my jet kit installed by a local tuner, the bike dynoed at 117.8 HP. That's with a K and N filter, Ignition advancer, Holeshot exhaust and jet kit.

From what I can tell, the first 15-20 HP extra on the Bandit12 are the cheap ones, whatever you try to squeeze out beyond that gets expensive.

That looks like , 117 minus 107 = 10 hp gain, for around $1,000, just my guess.

PeteSC · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2005, 05:09:18 PM »

Well, actually the first dyno run, was with an unjetted bike, with a Holeshot slipon/midpipe.
A guy was doing cheap dyno runs at Road Atlanta, and I said 'what the heck'.
The stock '99's were typically dynoing under 100 hp...and even assuming my bike would dyno at a generous 100 hp, 117.8 HP is within the 15-20 hp claims.
Another local Bandit 1200, a 2000, had his jet kit installed at the same place, and was slightly over 118.

I got my Holeshot jet kit USED in trade for a set of OEM crash bars, and got a month old K and N filter with it.
(Long story, the guy was building up a '99, just had installed the stuff...and came across a '00 that had a full system Akrapovic, stage 2, and thousands of $$ worth of junk........with under 500 miles, for $5000. He sold off the stuff he just put on his '99, then was selling it.)
I did buy the ignition advancer from Holeshot, for what...$50? (Somewhere around there.)
The slipon I bought in '99.....$320.
I paid an experienced drag tuner to install the jet kit....$200.
(Rob, at Fishs Customs in Columbia, SC.)

I'm still under $700 for my 15-20 HP, and paid somebody to install the jet kit, and dyno it.

I can live with that.......

Bob Holland · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2005, 09:16:15 PM »

I prefer going to the track, over going to a shop for a dyno run. Dynos are good for tuning, only if you go to the same dyno every time, and at $50.00 a trip, it is more than I like to pay. The strip is $20 on Friday night, and you can make adjustment between runs. I will take advantage of the $10 dyno pulls at the track, when they have them, more for thr A/F ratio than the HP and Torque numbers.
The 1200 Bandit will gain more from exhaust and jet kit than a pure sport bike, because it is so mildly tuned from the factory.
The GSXR 1100, "1127cc", makes around 125 hp, with pipe and jet kit, and the difference is mostly the cams.
I have had several GSXR 1100s, this is my first Bandit.

theroamr · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2005, 10:38:44 PM »

So there Pete , I guess he put a schooling on you . All the dyno's at holeshot and other sites are wrong

PeteSC · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2005, 11:39:35 PM »

Yeah, maybe I could have slipped the Dyno guy an extra 20, and ended up with 200 HP B12!
I've only had the bike dynoed twice. Once completely stock, except for the slipon, and the second time when I had the jet kit installed.
That's been 4-5 years ago. As long as the sucker is running well, I doubt I'll ever do it again.
I've never messed with my carbs, or know crap about them.
I have been running a 'Bandit' board of some type for over 5 years, and have sucked up some info....some of it worthwhile!

Bob Holland · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2005, 05:07:00 PM »

"Note: These are true numbers measured on Dales in-house Dynojet 150 Dynamometer with the "Win Pep" program and then reformated for the web.

The Holeshot compound is about 200 feet above sea level and the dyno room stays at a constant temperature between 70-80° F. These results were also achieved with Dales tuning, which is a bonus. Dale uses his dyno as a measuring tool for development and testing only.

Be aware, that dynos, dyno operators, conditions and bikes can vary 3-8 hp, so this should only be used as a reference for before and after results. Dynojet 250 Dynos now commonly used, usually read about 7 to 9 % higher than a 150 model."This is stright from Holeshots Website

Red01 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2005, 07:55:46 PM »

And according to those Holeshot dyno figures, a stock bike put out 100.7 hp and with a Stage II jet kit & slip-on put out 115.5 hp. Not 15-20, but only a mere 14.8 hp increase. With a full header instead of the slip-on, he did manage 119.0 hp, for a 18.3 hp increase.

theroamr · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2005, 08:00:34 PM »

........Stock....Stage 2 + Slip-On..Stage 2 + Full System
RPM......HP / TQ.......HP / TQ.......HP / TQ
3000..33.0/56.2....34.1/57.2....34.2/57.8
3500..41.9/63.0....44.6/63.6....46.1/63.3
4000..48.0/63.0....51.4/67.5....53.5/70.0
4500..56.1/65.1....64.2/74.9....64.6/75.1
5000..63.5/66.5....71.5/75.1....67.9/72.2
5500..72.0/68.6....80.6/76.9....78.1/74.2
6000..79.2/69.4....89.8/78.6....89.4/78.2
6500..83.6/67.5....98.9/79.9....99.2/80.6
7000..87.9/66.0...105.5/79.1...106.1/78.4
7500..92.0/64.2...110.2/77.2...112.0/77.4
8000..93.4/61.3...113.1/74.3...115.4/76.8
8500..93.0/57.5...115.6/69.6...118.2/72.7
9000..94.2/54.4..116.6/69.8..120.9/70.6
9500..89.7/49.6...111.1/61.3...117.8/66.9

PeteSC · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2005, 10:03:23 PM »

I found the old dyno sheet.
Yeah, Dynos can or will be 'off'.........
This is a biggish file, so I'll do it as a link

http://www.banditalley.com/mystuff/fishdyno.jpg

OK, I did lie. Max HP was 117.7........... with the vortex slipon, midpipe, K and N filter, 2 inch mod, ignition advance.

I even found the dyno sheet from the track dyno, when the bike didn't have a jet kit, but had the slip on, and probably the snorkel removed, and a k and n filter.........and it was maxing 110-111 hp, on a Dynojet 100.
Bantana may remember, he dynoed his Bandit 750 on same dyno right before I did, and it was somewhere in the high 90's for HP.

The installation of the jet kit, by a 'pro', smoothed the bike out quite a bit, and only yielded 5 hp or so over the bike without the jet kit, but the same slipon. (Not stock)
I'm not in an HP race. The bike just runs so much better the way it's set up.....

PitterB4 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2005, 10:59:08 PM »

Quote from: "Red01"

And according to those Holeshot dyno figures, a stock bike put out 110.7 hp and with a Stage II jet kit & slip-on put out 115.5 hp. Not 15-20, but only a mere 14.8 hp increase. With a full header instead of the slip-on, he did manage 119.0 hp, for a 18.3 hp increase.

Paul - I'm guessing you meant that stock was 101.7. Either that or you're math-challenged like me.

Brian, are those your numbers or something from Dale's site?

Red01 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2005, 11:39:41 PM »

Thanks for catching my typo... I hit the "1" key twice instead of the "0" key twice. It was supposed to be 100.7 - and I went back and fixed it.

All the Holeshot dyno numbers from the stock/Stage 1/Stage 2/Stage 2 w/header can be seen here.
These seem similar to, but not the same as Brian's numbers.

12sdrag · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2005, 11:42:24 PM »

My two cents, I think all the horsepower talk over shadows the question? Can these mods gain .3 second in the 1/4? My answer, maybe, but I think that fraction of time can be gain and lost from run to run. Gaining Experience is the biggest upgrade you can do. I gained a full second with my bike last year just learning the right way to race my bike. Of course my bike already had these mods so I don`t know what it did stock. (Consistancy pays horsepower cost) the dyno, 101 stock 122 after pipe, jet kit, timing advancer you know the easy stuff but we spend a little extra time in the carbs and timing. Could be a happy dyno, could be air pressure in the rear tire it all make a differnce in the dyno room. At the track it`s all about the ride fast or slow. A good rider can make a slow bike run its fastast. A bad rider is just a bad rider. Just my two cents.