Downshifting becoming a problem

[dhcolesj]

I have a new '08 Bandit 1250S.  I discovered early on the thing has a rhythm to downshifting, and does NOT like to be rushed, even if its an emergency stop. 

However, I've begun to notice that every now and then it will not down shift at all unless I let out on the clutch a little in between mashing the gear pedal.     Once I figured out the pace it likes to be down shifted, I thought I had it made.  But, now, I've had several occasions where the thing feels like its in first, but when I take off it lugs and has even killed the engine.  After trying to take off again it allows me to finish shifting down (again, at it's pace).  I'm wondering if this is just my stupidity in inexperience, or do I need to take it to the dealer and have the tranny looked at?

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced something like this.

[Dink_1170]

Check the clutch fluid level, then bled the clutch. Check drive chain tension.

Dink

[dhcolesj]

The Fluid Level is fine, (I remember looking at this not long after the last time it happened) and it's only been about 1100 miles since the 600 mile maint, so I figured the bleeding would have been done then.  I'll bleed it Saturday, just to be sure.  My question is would this be a "chain is too tight" or "too lose" problem?  Because it seemed tension was pretty good without a ruler check the last time I oiled it. (not too lose, but not too tight either).  When I bleed the clutch I'll ruler the chain and see where it is.

I thought about the fluid level, but since that looked good, (its more toward the upper "full" mark if not right on it) and it doesn't happen all the time, I kinda thought it was me.  Thanks for the tips.

[Dink_1170]

My 1250 motor runs hot, my clutch fluid was dis-colouring (I believe from the heat) if I am correct you could be experiencing "brake fade" in the clutch line due to the fluid boiling.

Dink

[dhcolesj]

That doesn't sound good.   

What did you do to resolve that situation?  If it works well for you, I may do it just to prevent that as *another* issue to fight.

[pmackie]

Hey dhcolesj

If you're trying to pull in the clutch, and then drop multiple gears, you can expect to have the condition you describe. Since the tranny has sliding "dogs" on the gears that must move to catch other "dogs" or slots in other gears, you need to get the shafts moving to complete a shift.

With practice, most guys actually bring the revs up while the clutch is in, to help match the motor speed to the new road speed, and then release the clutch between each shift.

It's pretty common that if you are stopped at a light in 3rd and intend to downshift to 1st, that the bike will at best give you second until you let out the clutch and down shift again.

Sounds normal to me...you'll get it with some more practice.

[dhcolesj]

Hmmm. . . Actually if I hold in the clutch and drop gears at the right pace *normally* it works just fine.  I've pretty well figured out the rhythm it likes to be changed.  However, every now and then, and only rarely it will hang at a gear as though it were in first.  Then, sometimes, even though it acts like it could be down shifted the gear will not actually change, as you say, until I let out the clutch. 

That's why I was leaning toward inexperience, but I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't a little bit of each (some the bike, some me).   

[Red01]

My 1250 motor runs hot, my clutch fluid was dis-colouring (I believe from the heat) if I am correct you could be experiencing "brake fade" in the clutch line due to the fluid boiling.

Dink

You should neve boil the clutch fluid... the clutch slave is on the left exterior of the motor and the clutch basket is on the right.  The slave cylider does not come in contact with motor oil, so to boil it, you'd have to get the outside of the motor pretty darn hot.

The clutch fluid discolors from the wear of the o-rings and the fact the clutch sees more cycling than the brakes for most folks.  When I changed my brake & clutch fluid to Valvoline SynPower brake fluid, it has stayed clean and "clear" for over a year now.

[bngboyd]

The clutch fluid discolors from the wear of the o-rings and the fact the clutch sees more cycling than the brakes for most folks.  When I changed my brake & clutch fluid to Valvoline SynPower brake fluid, it has stayed clean and "clear" for over a year now.

That right there is some good info Red, thank you for that. 
Valvoline here I come. 

[gunzip]

 My 07 bandit has the exact same problem as yours , it will literally get stuck downshifting , I have to cycle the clutch lever and BANG CLUNK ! i have stalled the motor doing this. It feels like gear teeth or shift dogs are rather rather solidly hanging.
 
 The only advice I've gotten on all the forums is 'learn to shift' like i forgot how after 100 k miles on motorcycles . Naturally it shifts flawlessly on the two times I took it into the dealer. If it doesn't clear up i will be unloading this bike , hate to cuz otherwise i love the bike

[A1A]

I've experienced this several times with my 07 Bandit. But I came to the conclusion that I waited to long to select the next lower gears while slowing. Also this will happen during panic emergency braking situations.
But to be fair to the new Bandit this has happened to me with all the bikes I've owned at one time or another.

HTH's

[gunzip]

 I'm going to quit bitchin' about this problem and get after it.  My first instinct is that there is too much end play in the shift shaft coming out of the motor , I might try to fabricate a carrier bearing mount out towards the end of the shaft and probably add an extra return spring while i'm at it.   

[CWO4GUNNER]

Unless your doing track time there is really no need to be down shift engine braking unless your doing a poor man's anti-lock brake move in an emergency. Its easier to replace a set of brake pads then it is to tear down and replace a clutch. I don't engine brake and my 07 B1250 and can down shifts with the clutch in as fast as I can tap my toe.

[dhcolesj]

Its not really about braking with the engine so much as it is about taking off after you stop.  You stop in a hurry and think think you have shifted down to first, but haven't, and when you try to take off the engine stalls.  I've about got the situation worked out by just taking the time to make sure, even though I know folks behind me may be wondering why I can't go on. 
It would be nice if I could just hold in the clutch and down shift to first without having to let out the clutch, shift down 2 gears, etc.

And, like I said at the start, it doesn't always give me a problem.  Sometimes, especially early in a ride, or early morning, it works flawlessly, (as long as I follow the pattern and don't try to go to first while going too fast).

I seem to be getting the hang of it now, and I haven't stalled the engine in a long time now.  About to come up on my 4K maintenance, so we'll see the longer I run it.

[salvate]

Hmm, my 07 will allow me to tap my gears down as fast as i want and even multiple gears with one grab of the clutch. The once or twice i have been in second gear at a light I managed to pull it off without stalling the bike thanks to gobs of good old torque.