Author Topic: Handling in the twisty (Read 6857 times)

Bandit Jap · « **on:** May 30, 2005, 08:31:51 AM »

This weekend was my 1st major biking ride away since passing my test a few months ago. I went to North Wales (England) with 2 of my pals who own an R1 and the other a Honda Blackbird.

What a great time I had:)

Wales is just full of twisty turns and to a newbie like me they were many times when I felt my backside pucker up!!!

My friends were not speeding at all but left me well behind just using there experience on approaching and leaving bends. (they did wait for me)

I would like to know techniques that you people use to get in and out of bends safley and with ease.

So far I have been told...

1. Scrub off speed before bend
2. Keep in the 6-7000 revs for better control
3. Get into correct position (left hand for right turn, right lane for left turn)
4. Keep lightly on throttle whilst in corner
5. Wait till upright when out of the bend before putting on the power.
6. If you have to use a brake whilst in the turn only feather the back brake to tighten up the turn. Never front brake.
7. Always ride to your own ability never others (never play catchup this is when things go wrong)

aussiebandit · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2005, 08:51:11 AM »

Personal exeperience tells me to always remember the 7th rule

Quote

Always ride to your own ability never others (never play catchup this is when things go wrong)

I've seen quite a few people get themselves into "trouble" trying to keep up with a better/faster/more idiotic rider. To be honest I learnt the expensive way, $6500 damage to the bike and bruised ribs, legs and arms on me, just to try and "keep up" with a faster rider on a faster bike.

smooth operator · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2005, 11:03:40 AM »

That was pretty much good,except- true srub down your speed befor the turn so you can get on the throtel sooner. Wich unloads the front and puts the power on the rear tire and balances the load. But do'nt worry about what rpms your runnig,all you need is enough to balance out the bike. And look where you want to go. And do not use your back brake only. Your stopping power is with the front. I rarely use the back brake,or use it to assit the front if needed.Just rub off the speed early enough that you can choose or change your line. There plenty of time to go fast coming out of the turn. Then when you start feeling comfortable, you can come in a little farther.

PeteSC · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2005, 11:48:44 AM »

I probably have a bizarre riding style, but can get through the twisties pretty damn fast, without a lot of 'drama'.
It kind of boils down to a few factors.
I want to get through the corners without braking, and particularily without 'dramatic' braking. I try to not use any brakes at all. This means adjusting your speed BEFORE you enter the corner. Rolloff the throttle as you enter, once the bike is tracking the corner right, roll on....
(dramatic to me means heavy application of the brakes at the entrance to the corner, after 'goosing it' as you approach the corner.)
Counter-steering. You're not going to get through a tight corner efficiently without using counter steering. The bike feels 'right', and you can roll on the throttle while in the curve.......

I intend to get through the corner fast, and safely. This means using YOUR lane only, and staying away from the centerline of the road as much as possible. When I think of riding 'twisties', I'm picturing the roads we have in the southeast US.......tight, with no chance of seeing what's coming at you around the bend, and expect oncoming traffic to stray into your lane.
It's easy to get through twisty stuff, using the whole roadway. It's also sloppy, and dangerous. Any 'squid' can blast the twisties....using both lanes. I'm impressed with a rider that is fast, smooth, and isn't tempting death on every corner.
we're talking about riding on the 'street', not a track. You can't attempt to get 100% 'fast', without risking something.

txbanditrydr · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2005, 11:49:17 AM »

All good points above... I would like to add that familiarity helps. If you have never ridden a particular set of curves check them out with caution at first and learn potential trouble spots. As you run that route over time you'll be more comfortable knowing when a particular curve ends and what lies over the next rise.

Jacknife · « **Reply #5 on:** May 30, 2005, 01:34:15 PM »

Yer, my mate had an R1 too! and left me standing, passed my test in Feb. All good point to take in to account. Now I leave my mate behind, he sold his R1 to buy a van, Nice!

billythefish · « **Reply #6 on:** May 30, 2005, 02:03:32 PM »

Quote from: "Jacknife"

Yer, my mate had an R1 too! and left me standing, passed my test in Feb. All good point to take in to account. Now I leave my mate behind, he sold his R1 to buy a van, Nice!

so are you saying you can leave a van behind now?

good for you

Red01 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 30, 2005, 03:02:47 PM »

As Mick noted, rule #7 should be rule #1!

I don't necessarily agree with #5. While it's safer to wait until you're fully upright, you can accelerate out of the corner while still heeled over - that's how you go fast. You just have to make sure you don't accelerate so hard that you loose control.

Anything more than light braking with the front when leaned over for a turn makes the bike want to stand up and make you go wide - or off the road. This is why it is recommended if you have to brake in a turn, to do so with the rear brake, but if you get carried away with that, it can cause a low side, so the best advice is to do ALL your braking before the corner. It is better to get some ribbing from your mates for being a little slow in a corner than having them bring you flowers in the hospital or cemetary.

theroamr · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2005, 07:23:28 PM »

All sounds great . But if breaking is needed entering a corner use the technique of taper braking . It means if your going to fast and need to brake before cornering do most of braking upright, as you start to lean slowly reduce braking until your using no brake at near full lean . This technique keeps the suspension settled and keeps things very smooth . As for getting on the throttle , once you have hit your apex and start to bring the bike slowly upright , start to throttle up more and more as the bike becomes verticle .

theroamr · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2005, 07:26:37 PM »

I think I prefer Pete's method overall , its reffered to as "The Pace" , . It having fun in the corners and keeping the speed down in the straights . If done right you'll never need the brakes . Its awesome when you get in the flow . Its great practice with alot less risk .

smooth operator · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2005, 09:36:25 PM »

Ditto what Pete said, you can have a blast not using the brakes at all. Just use trottle managment,your motor will slow you down comming into the turn. I have a great time riding by myself that way on my favorite roads.
Dan

Mustang-Mel · « **Reply #11 on:** June 01, 2005, 01:14:34 AM »

Great agreement with Pete and Dan. I usually drop down a gear or two when approaching a tight bend depending on my approach speed. If it is an unfamiliar bend, I close my throttle before entering it. Better to be safe than sorry.

PitterB4 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2005, 11:10:24 PM »

Sorry for being a little late coming to this topic...

Quote from: "theroamr"

...and keeping the speed down in the straights. ...

Right! After a day of following you around, Brian, my speedo looked like something from a cartoon - cracked glass, springs and gears popping out all over the place!

Seriously, once you have a grip on your abilities and have someone to ride with that you trust and have a comfort level with, riding behind a better rider is a great way to get better yourself. Watch how fast he enters turns, where in the curve he turns-in... It's really helpful.

slo coach · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2005, 07:32:47 AM »

loads of good tips in the above comments.

the most comfortable person with the speed is the rider out front,thats why he's there.don't be tempted to keep up with others unless you are skilled enough to do so,if they can corner faster ,so be it.
you will learn by watching riders in front--lines they take,breaking.
understand vanishing point,entry apex and exit using themwith technical skills like counter steering braking.
look ahead to vanishing point,the place where the two curbs or road edges appear to meet.if vanishing point iscoming towards you the corner is getting tighter.the speed at which vanishing point comes towards you will determine how much you need to slow down.as the vanishing point comes closer.slow stay wide of the apex,until VP starts moving away,at this point you can see the exit.accelerate and chase the VP out of the corner,by leaning into the corner more and cut close to the corners apex.

good cornering is go in slow,exit at speed,and spend as much time in the corner with the power on,your eyes be looking as far ahead as your vision allows.
ENTRY----in slow out fast.

APEX---the point where you cut closest to the corner or centreline.beginning to now accelerate towards

EXIT--now accelerating--changing up--chasing vanishing point--positioning bike for next corner

COUNTER STEERING--applying pressure to handlebars with the palms of your hands..palm piloting...turning left then push the left side of handlebars forward by dropping your lleft shoulder with bent or not straight arms,opposite for right handed corner
bandits ,because of there mass need to be pushed around a bit by rider with counter steering
BRAKING....balanced breaking..both brakes with equal force..as the bike slows the weight transfeers forward,front forks start to compress.at this stage most braking can be transfered to the front,as bike slows the forks rise transfer braking to rear brake
being inexperienced my mates who are experienced tell me braking is BAD, so i try my utmost to keep of the brakes and bang it down through the gears which meantgetting your head right ,but it works for me now

EYES...should be constantly scanningroad ahead.if you see a problem,don't fixate on the problem,otherwise you willride straight intoit.look for solution or a gap....

LOOK AT IT YOU'LL HIT IT ---DON'T AND YOU WON'T---

all seems pretty basic really,i have a book in my pack which i read occasionally with the above in it but sometimes even though we know it we have to remind our selves what we know.

slo coach

NCBANDIT · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2005, 09:13:33 AM »

Quote from: "PitterB4"

Sorry for being a little late coming to this topic...

Quote from: "theroamr"
...and keeping the speed down in the straights. ...

Right! After a day of following you around, Brian, my speedo looked like something from a cartoon - cracked glass, springs and gears popping out all over the place!

This is true, I felt the same way following him while I was up there on thurs. But I had a blast watching his lines and improving mine.... what little time he was in my site