Mechanical help please - valve cover - diagram added

[SP-Dee]

Hello all!

Let me start off by saying I am not a mechanical person.  I'm slowly learning about all the little bits & pieces of my bike.

I took my 02 Bandit 1200S in for servicing, oil change, valve adjustment, and a few other things. When I talked to the shop foreman today he informed me that there was a serious problem with the bike. What I was told was that when the tech went to take off the valve cover he found that all the bolts had been stripped and replaced with heli-coils. After reading about those tonight for the first time I suppose this isn't anything to be concerned about. However he also informed me that the valve cover had been cracked and epoxied together underneath. They discovered the epoxy fix when the tech went to tighten the bolts when replacing the valve cover and the whole thing cracked apart along the original break.

So here are my questions for the more mechanically inclined riders:
1. Is it common for valve covers to crack and is it standard practice to just epoxy it together or just a cheap home garage fix to hide it?

2. My mechanic contacted Suzuki dealers around the city looking for the part but Suzuki claims it is not sold individually anymore. True or not? I've been to BikeBandit.com to look at OEM parts but cannot find what it is, I don't even know what the frickin' thing looks like.

3. What would replacing the whole cylinder head do for me in terms of bike longevity. I have a call into a used parts place here to see what they have but I'm not feeling very positive about it. I adore this bike and want it for a very long time, i have no desire to up or downgrade. The mechanic also let me know that the cam chain? was getting wore down some of the cylinder parts were starting to pit slightly. I'm not sure which parts though.

Thanks for your insights.

[BanditoNova]

Go here:
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/suzuki-motorcycle-gsf1200sk2-bandit-s-2002/o/m6130

Assuming there's nothing wrong with the cylinder head itself other than having the helicoils and the bike runs fine, it sounds like all you need is another valve cover.
Go to the page above and click on the schematic called 'Cylinder Head Cover'.You will see the enlarged schematic and below that a parts list with prices. You need part #: 475924-001 which is '1' in the diagram. There is a lot of help on the board explaining how to change the cover if you have some basic tools which would save some $$.

[SP-Dee]

More Info:

After speaking again to the tech, who apparently mislead me the first time we spoke. It's not the head cover, it's the actual head that was damaged. The parts that were epoxied together were on the cylinder head that fell apart and that's what needs to be replaced. Also, the quote was just for the part alone, not the gaskets, bolts, other bits & pieces and labour.

the grand estimate was over $4000. What a waste, it can sit in my garage til the end of time or sell it for parts. I can buy another bike for that price. Sad, I really liked that Bandit and probably won't be able to get another one. At least this time I know enough to insist on the seller, whether from the used section of a dealership or a private seller, to take for a servicing/inspection before I buy it.

yes, I'm bitter.

[pmackie]

The parts that were epoxied together were on the cylinder head that fell apart and that's what needs to be replaced...yes, I'm bitter.

No kidding...i'd be bitter too.

Get the shop tech to tell what is broken, so the rest of us can learn. A photo would be helpful too. These are pretty tough engines, so someone must of had a serious problem, or dropped something on the head/cam mounts.

Since yours is an '02, most of the bike will still be in good shape, so I would suggest 2 options:

1. Look for a used 1200 engine from a wrecked bike. You can try E-Bay, Maximum Suzuki forums, this forum, etc. Used engines are available for a modest $, and changing the whole engine is NOT that hard or expensive.

2.Sell your bike for parts. This is a bigger job than #1 above, but may result in you getting much of your initial investment back. Again, these parts are sellable using the same process in #1. Wheels, forks, brakes, tank and plastics are the easiest to sell.

Let us know how you make out.

[andrewsw]

I hate to be a litigious american, but if someone sold you a known defective vehicle, you may have recourse. How long have you had it? Also, I would be insisting on looking at the bike myself immediately. I would want the mechanic to show me *everything* in detail. Depending on how scrupulous the mechanic is, it may be a case of a mechanic f-ing up and trying to cover his tracks (and make $4000 to boot).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you're being screwed by the mechanic, but I'd want to see just to be sure. I find it hard to believe there is anything on the head that could survive while running for more than a few minutes if it was just "epoxied" together.

Also, you'd be amazed at what a good machine shop can do. Don't count it out until you've really had a good chance to look it over.

meanwhile, what a drag. Sorry to hear it and I hope it works out well. Swapping engines may be the best route as you can part out the other one and come out somewhat close to even.

[SP-Dee]

Well, I've got a call into a motorcycle salvage for used parts, see what they have available. We are going to trailer it to our garage and sit it for a bit to see if I can find some used parts. I have a friend who does a lot of bike work on the side so I'm going to ask him if he'd be interested in doing any work for me. If not, i'm selling it for parts. Look like that's it for my riding until next year.

I am headed up there anyways so I'll get him to show me the busted parts and get some pics of it.

I've only had the bike for just over a year, buying it used last april. It was off a dealership but the price was comparable to other Bandits I had researched being sold privately. I didn't feel that I got ripped off. However, I've noticed the dealership has a very very high turnover rate and since it was a used bike I am not feeling optimistic that they would do anything for me.

Now that I don't have a bike...I want to be out riding more than ever!!!

[Red01]

The only thing I can think of on the head that could be epoxied and live, yet break while the mechanic was putting it back together would be one of the cam journal caps.  They have threaded inserts for the valve cover and can be broken if someone tries to run the bolts down too tight.  (They don't require a lot of torque, so if an overzealous shadetree howler monkey is let loose with a wrench, something like this can happen.)

The cam journal caps are matched to the head, so you can't buy one separate from new part sources, and if you happened to be able to buy a used one, it would have to be machined to match your head... and the head would probably have to come off.  The expense & effort involved makes either a good replacement head, or whole engine, a viable alternative.

OTOH, something like this happened to another member, and he came up with a fix.  I'll see if I can find that thread for you.

[Red01]

OTOH, something like this happened to another member, and he came up with a fix.  I'll see if I can find that thread for you.

Here it is:

http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=1498.0

Most of the pics no longer work, but the simple graphic of what he did still shows up and that's the most important.  This would still require the services of a machine shop, but you'd only need to take in the damaged cap(s) and a sample of what a repaired one needs to look like, along with a copy of the graphic so they understand what you're talking about.

[Snubnose]

I've only had the bike for just over a year, buying it used last april. It was off a dealership but the price was comparable to other Bandits I had researched being sold privately. I didn't feel that I got ripped off. However, I've noticed the dealership has a very very high turnover rate and since it was a used bike I am not feeling optimistic that they would do anything for me.

I cant believe that if a dealer sold you that bike, used or not, that they are not willing to share at least some of the $ to fix the bike. If I bought a used bike off a dealer and  they (did the dealership u bought it off service it?)  says that the part that unfortunately broke during servicing was previously epoxied together, I would go on the offensive and argue that they shouldn't be selling (concealed) damaged bikes, post haste!. This is providing the thing was previously epoxied, and that the damage was not just done, just like what was already said by some junior grease monkey in mechanical diapers at the shop u took it to!.

If the service took place elsewhere, I would insist on having the broken part shown to you and then take that part for inspection by another professional to see if it is a clean break or a repeat one!, there should be trace amount of epoxy left over it they are telling the truth.

[stormi]

Well, I've got a call into a motorcycle salvage for used parts, see what they have available. We are going to trailer it to our garage and sit it for a bit to see if I can find some used parts. I have a friend who does a lot of bike work on the side so I'm going to ask him if he'd be interested in doing any work for me. If not, i'm selling it for parts. Look like that's it for my riding until next year.

Which cycle salvage are you dealing with here? 

I am headed up there anyways so I'll get him to show me the busted parts and get some pics of it.

Is this AB Cycle by any chance?  Or Argyll?

I have very specific reasons for asking about either of these dealers, and I'll tell you why once I know which one it is.

We've just left on vacation, and we'll be back on Aug 18th-ish, but please let me know the details.  r_outsider and I might be able to come up with some help or at least offer you some "translations" about what you're experiencing and about to face.

 

[SP-Dee]

Thanks stormi, I think that's similar to what I have. This is the best pic I could do at the moment. The technician showed me where the crack was and the piece that came off. whoever did the home fix just put a big block of epoxy on the outside to hold it in place.

Here's a pic of what was broken.


There were also heli-coils in every bolt hole imaginable. Whoever did this sure manage to reef the crap out of those pieces, even the drain plug had one on.

Right now, I'm leaning towards a new cylinder, there was a great deal of pitting the technician showed to me on some hardened surfaces (don't know what they are called), the cam chain? was extremely loose and according to him the whole engine has to be taken apart for that. I've been pointed in the direction of a friend's mechanic who swears he won't lead my astray, she has had excellent work done from him and won't charge me the outrageous amount the dealership wanted.

The topper was the dealership wanted to charge me $400 for the service. So the significant other, who is a much better arguer than I, asked them why are they charging us for a service when no servicing was done and we have a bike that doesn't run??

[SP-Dee]

Stormi, forgot to add, it's not either dealership. I took it to the new Sherwood park Honda center (the one with both motorcycle and vehicle shops). All the Suzuki dealerships had over a month wait and the clicking in my engine was getting worse every time I rode and was making me uncomfortable.

I did see the part and it was definitely not damaged by the technician. I'm thinking it would have been only a matter of time before it fell apart anyways, it wasn't even epoxied very well, in my opinion, just a blob on the piece that broke off and stuck back into place around a heli-coil.

I'm still pretty new to the motorcycle politics side of things here. I don't know which is a good or bad mechanic here, I'm still learning who to avoid. I tend to use the advice of some friends quite a bit and some had already used the new honda motorcycle shop and were happy with their work.

I've just been checking with recycle Motorsports to see what they have but no luck yet.

I am in dire need of a coffee :( and tylenol, i get a headache and sick feeling to my stomach when I think about my poor bike.

[BanditoNova]

Sorry the problem isn't as simple as you first thought! I would stand outside the dealer with a protest sign.(on public property)....they would probably take care of you quick

[Red01]

Dee, based on your little red arrow in the graphic above, this is exactly what I suspected, and the fix I was talking about would save you from having to swap out the whole head.

[SP-Dee]

Red, I'm lucking out and have two mechanics willing to work with me on this. First we are going to try and find aftermarket parts, then go ahead with machining if the first option doesn't pan out. I'm going to look at this as an opportunity to learn more about my bike and the mechanic is willing to let me sit in with him to tear apart and put back together in the evenings.

I've printed out the graphic from the other thread for reference so we have it on hand!

Thanks everyone for your help!