suzuki oil alternative?

[Buzter]

hey guys,  I'm looking for a cheaper alternative to suzuki oil.  I have a 02' B6 and need some ideas since oil is pretty expensive here lately.

[JReviere]

Buz:  I use Shell Rotella T Synthetic, available at WalMart at a very reasonable price.  

Oil is like RELIGION... people tend to lose all good common sense and rationality in defending their choice of oil. People get very passionate about the oil they choose to use.  The producer/sellers of specialty oils such as Amzoil, Motul, Royal Purple and bike Brand Name oils just love to RAKE IN THE PROFITS FROM THEIR OVER PRICED GOO.

Mostly, if you keep it changed and new filters faithfully on a 2K to 3K schedule, most any brand of oil will do just nicely... some will shift better than others, some will give you more peace of mind than others, but if it meets the viscosity and API service spec set forth in your owner's manual... it will do just fine...  Just change it every 2 or 3 K mi and change the filter each time too.

JR
Lake Livingston, TX
01B12S "Le Rouge Rogue"

[Buzter]

I thought synthetics were to slick for the bandit clutch.

Buz:  I use Shell Rotella T Synthetic, available at WalMart at a very reasonable price.  

Oil is like RELIGION... people tend to lose all good common sense and rationality in defending their choice of oil. People get very passionate about the oil they choose to use.  The producer/sellers of specialty oils such as Amzoil, Motul, Royal Purple and bike Brand Name oils just love to RAKE IN THE PROFITS FROM THEIR OVER PRICED GOO.

Mostly, if you keep it changed and new filters faithfully on a 2K to 3K schedule, most any brand of oil will do just nicely... some will shift better than others, some will give you more peace of mind than others, but if it meets the viscosity and API service spec set forth in your owner's manual... it will do just fine...  Just change it every 2 or 3 K mi and change the filter each time too.

JR
Lake Livingston, TX
01B12S "Le Rouge Rogue"

[JReviere]

Not at all...  Too slick... Not at all...   If an oil has "Energy Conserving" on the container... it's possible for that oil to be too slick for wet clutch operation. In general, however, "Energy Conserving" oils are of too thin a viscosity and do not meet the bike manufacturer's specs for viscosity index.  However, if the container does not have "Energy Conserving" on it, no problem.  

Suggest you read  this:

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html#charta

about engine oils  or do a Google for SMOT  and read the oil related items there or on the VFR boards.  The author Mike is a retired oil/lubricant test scientist from a major oil company in Houston.... Very informative information.  

BTW... I've personally used synthetics in MANY bikes and NEVER had a clutch slip.

JR
Lake Livingston, TX
01 B12S

[Buzter]

cool, thanks.  I've got the filter, so I'll pick up some oil this weekend.

Not at all...  Too slick... Not at all...   If an oil has "Energy Conserving" on the container... it's possible for that oil to be too slick for wet clutch operation. In general, however, "Energy Conserving" oils are of too thin a viscosity and do not meet the bike manufacturer's specs for viscosity index.  However, if the container does not have "Energy Conserving" on it, no problem.  

Suggest you read  this:

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html#charta

about engine oils  or do a Google for SMOT  and read the oil related items there or on the VFR boards.  The author Mike is a retired oil/lubricant test scientist from a major oil company in Houston.... Very informative information.  

BTW... I've personally used synthetics in MANY bikes and NEVER had a clutch slip.

JR
Lake Livingston, TX
01 B12S

[JReviere]

Welcome.

JR

[solman]

Older clutches seem to run into the sliippage problem more often.  I use a semi-synthetic Golden Spectro.  Oil changes are expensive, but I use what works good for me.  Cheap or expensive, I don't care.  I have found some oils tend to give up early and start giving me shifting problems.  That is where I find out if a oil is good or not.

[JReviere]

Solman: You are right in regard to clutches with a LOT of miles on them, or those which have been "ridden hard and put up wet" to use an old "cowboy" expression about horses which are abused.  In general a clutch exposed to normal... that is NON ABUSIVE treatment over a reasonable period of time should never have a problem with synthetic oils. You are right too, Solman, about using sticky or klunky shifting as an indicator of oil breaking down. This does seem to be a valid indicator, at least I think so.

JR
01B12S
Lake Livingston, TX

[txbanditrydr]

Let me chime in with a plug for Shell Rotella 15w-40 dino....  real cheap (at Wallyworld for less than 9 bucks a gallon) and since I change mine every 2,000 miles it's a real bargain.

I'd like to add......    to everyone for just adding their input and not slamming with "do a search".....  makes this place real pleasant to be around.

[JReviere]

txbanditdr:  
You've got a real point. Cheap and as good as any dino oil.  The only advantage of synthetics is the shear resistance in the transmission gears making it maintain lubricity for significantly longer times.  
I ran a GL1000 engine on Castrol GTX 20-50 on a 2K change cycle for 140,000 mi. When it began to jump out of first gear, I split the case. I was amazed at how clean and NEW everything inside looked... no sludge build up, no deposits... just a pale golden tint to the white aluminum innards of the motor.
I used a mic and measured the ring end gaps... within factory tolerance for new ring fit. Then I meausred all the bearings... all within factory tolerance for new bearings. So, I changed a gear dog to correct the gear jump under power, put it back together and ran it some more.
The frame on the old scoot began to fail at welds so the engine was removed and sold to a guy with an 81 GL1100 who'd forgotten to put oil in and ruined his motor... That was at 240,000 mi on the GL1000 motor... how long it went until he forgot to put oil in, I know not...  
That near quater million miles was on DINO juice changed every 2K mi/w/new filter each change.  
I've just gotten lazy in my antiquity. I don't like greasy fingers any more, so I use synthetics so I don't have to change oil so often.
The slight difference in price is more than made up in convenience, the price of filters lasting longer, and the smooth "click" shifting I get with the synthetic.
You are totally RIGHT about the civility of folk posting here. We all have opinions, of course, and to be comedic about it, opinions are somewhat like arm pits... we all have them and most often they STINK.  Personally, I'm not out to do a "Gottcha" or a "one up" on anyone. I just like to share my experience based knowledge and let others take it or leave it as they choose. I'm with an old Psychologist trainer I read much in my Grad School days... Fritz Perles... "I do my thing. You do your thing. I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you are not here to live up to mine. If somewhere along the way, we find each other, it's wonderful. If not, it can't be helped.

JR
01B12S "Le Rouge Rogue"
Lake Livingston, TX

[Vlad]

Shell Rotella T 15-40 dino ran just fine in my Bandit for a couple of changes. Before that I used Mobil1 15-50 synthetic with excellent results. Running on Amsoil 10-40 now, but will switch to 20-50 next because of easier availability and potentially smoother shifting. Changed oil and filter every 3.000Km before, but plan to extend the interval to about 10.000 with Amsoil.

As previously said any oil within manufacturers specs (not energy conserving) will do as long as you change it and the filter regularly. IMO, it all boils down to whether you want cheap and available dino oil and change it more often or you pay more for some extra piece of mind and the extended change interval of full synthetics. Just my 2c.

[JReviere]

Aye, Vlad. You hit on a key issue for most folks: PEACE OF MIND.  
Peace of mind is the major selling point of specialty products such as Royal Purple, Motul, Amzoil, etc. Their advertising is geared to creating doubt, creating concern, and creating a problem which they then can claim to solve. Neat sales gimmick indeed.
However, when it gets to the place where the rubber meets the aspharlt/concrete, those oils are no better and no worse than any other quality product, many of which are much less expensive... Specialty product sellers their advertising (often with loud songs of praise by their faithful) really sell PEACE OF MIND by creating the illusion their product solves a problem which in reality doesn't exist apart from their marketing messages.  
If you've got the coin of the realm to purchase PEACE OF MIND, then by all means to do so. Your bike won't know the difference, but you will FEEL better for having spent the coin.
One word about specs: Almost all bike engines call for API (American Petroleum Institute) service rating SG, I believe. What most people don't know and what manufcturers don't tell the public is,   That means, an oil rated SJ must have met the specs for all the ratings below or earlier including SF and SG.  
JR
01B12S "Le Rouge Rogue"
Lake Livingston, TX

[Vlad]

Your peace of mind argument is very valid JR and I totally agree with it. However, it wasn't the main point of my message.

The only difference between oils I ever truly noticed was in shifting. Mobil1 15W50 "red cap" shifted smoothly through the entire 3.000Km interval, at any environment and oil temperature. So did Shell Rotella, both synth and dino. All others, including Amsoil 10W40, were notchy and kind of stiff.

I have no other way of telling how good a certain oil is, and all other differences I experienced can be attributed to the "placebo effect".

Now, oil filters, that's a totally different and often neglected part of the controversy :).

[orionburn]

Now, oil filters, that's a totally different and often neglected part of the controversy :).

Ok, I'll bit on getting the controversy going  

Going to be heading out for parts this week to do an oil change and the plugs as well. I've read a couple articles about filters and yes, there is a lot of controversy out there. I remember one report that said the Supertech (WallyWorld brand) was actually better performing than a higher end Fram filter. Is there any general consensus on which filters are recommended?

One other question about choosing oil. Does "testing" various types have any adverse affects over time? Meaning that you try a full synthetic for 2-3k, then run dino oil, then back to a different syn?

[Vlad]

One other question about choosing oil. Does "testing" various types have any adverse affects over time? Meaning that you try a full synthetic for 2-3k, then run dino oil, then back to a different syn?

The only thing you should have in mind is that the oil change on a Bandit replaces only 60% of all oil in the engine. 40% gets left behind in the radiator and other parts of the engine.

All those stories about how it's not good to mix different types/grades of oil are pure BS, IMO.