Overcoming E10 (Ethanol Gas)

[Sven]

Back in May, prior to the trip to WV, I did a spring maintenance (spark plugs, air filter, oild + filter, etc.).  Around that time, I vaguely remember talking with a buddy about how the gas stations locally all started having ethanol stickers for the first time, or stickers changed wording from "may contain up to 10%" to "contains up to...".  I started having some rough idling, noticed a drop in mileage (from a city/freeway high of 46 to a low of 39) and the bike would stall out when I left work in the afternoon without letting it warm up.  I also would get something that I assume is the same as what was described elsewhere on this forum as "lean popping".

The problem went away on the trip, but came back and I had it all summer here in TN.  I redid my maintenance and tried a can of sea foam even.

Now on the trip to GA and back last week, the problem went away again, but came back when I filled up in TN gas.  I have decided it's because of the ethanol due to any othe good ideas.  In researching the matter, it sounds like it's a common problem in an motor other than a modern, big car engine.  Bikes, boats, lawn equipment all misbehave and lose efficiency.  Heck, even today's Consumer Reports news update was sympathetic on the issue.

So...anyone else really having heartburn over this issue?  Any way to overcome the side effects of this misguided attempt to reduce petroleum use?

[PaulVS]

I was talking to a friend who is somewhat of a fuel expert and here's his take... for what it's worth.

1.  An overly lean condition will exacerbate problems from using ethanol laced fuel.
2.  Colder temperatures, not hotter, make the problems with ethanol more pronounced.

Do you have a jet kit installed to compensate for #1?

Also... use Startron & Seafoam on a regular basis to clean out the 'crud' that ethanol leaves behind in your fuel system.... other additives like Sta-Bil & STP don't work.

[txbanditrydr]

I have noticed a loss in overall MPG with the use of E10.... common lament among users.  A recent trip to the twisties included no E10 and better fuel mileage - even with lower gears and higher revs.  The loss of mileage is REAL.

At first, the bike didn't seem to run any worse but now it definitely shows signs of running lean - poor idling, some surging at steady cruising speeds... just plain not what it used to be.  Seafoam did nothing to help that situation.  I suspect the carbs need a good cleaning and some changes in the settings.  Too bad because this bike has been totally trouble free until now.

FWIW... I hate E10.... 

[Red01]

I think you're on the right track.  While the owners manual says it's OK to use E10 (nothing higher on the E scale though), I've found it does decrease performance and fuel economy and will only use it if I have no other choice.  I haven't used it in my B12, but I have seen its ill effects in my cages. 

E10 will also attract any water in your fuel and that can compound running issues.

I don't know how prominent E10 is in TN, but around here, you can find plenty of stations that sell "E0", you just have to watch for the ethanol labels (or more specifically, the lack there of) on the pumps.

[PitterB4]

Huh...  I don't think I have a choice but E10 in any of the states where I get fuel (mostly MD but also frequently PA and sometimes DE).  I have a weird idle/sporadic hard starting problem I've been chasing for a while.  Wonder if E10 has at least something to do with it.  I pulled the carbs last weekend (likely the first time they've ever been off) and they looked GREAT as do the plugs but I wonder if I'm not burning corn as well as dinos??? 

[Sven]

I was talking to a friend who is somewhat of a fuel expert and here's his take... for what it's worth.  An overly lean condition will exacerbate problems from using ethanol laced fuel.  Do you have a jet kit installed to compensate for #1?

I totally lost track of my own thread!  So anyway...

I still have the stock exhaust and have changed nothing about the jetting.  So tell me about that...while I would probably have it done rather than do it myself, what would I need...or what would I ask for?

[Sven]

I don't know how prominent E10 is in TN, but around here, you can find plenty of stations that sell "E0", you just have to watch for the ethanol labels (or more specifically, the lack there of) on the pumps.

Everything is labeled to say "may contain" or "does contain" up to 10% ethanol.  Nobody advertises having E0, unlike stations in the stories I've read online.  I think I got a good tank of gas a couple weeks ago in the county north of mine while riding the MRT.  But it was a typical modern BP station with the same "may contain" label. 

[txbanditrydr]

I still have the stock exhaust and have changed nothing about the jetting.  So tell me about that...while I would probably have it done rather than do it myself, what would I need...or what would I ask for?

Stay tuned (pun intended) as I hope to solve some running issues this weekend with a stage 1 jet kit.  It'll be the first time my carbs have ever been touched.

[Sven]

I still have the stock exhaust and have changed nothing about the jetting.  So tell me about that...while I would probably have it done rather than do it myself, what would I need...or what would I ask for?

Stay tuned (pun intended) as I hope to solve some running issues this weekend with a stage 1 jet kit.  It'll be the first time my carbs have ever been touched.

And you're taking pictures of every step!

[txbanditrydr]

And you're taking pictures of every step!

Actually, I hope to - the instructions with the kit assume you have a lot of experience and I found them to be a little bit vague.  Terrebandit has done this to a couple of bikes and offered to help me this weekend - maybe I can put together a nice little how-to thread.

[PitterB4]

Getting the carbs off is the hardest part.  The rest is a snap.  With some patience, you can do it. 

[Sven]

the instructions with the kit assume you have a lot of experience and I found them to be a little bit vague

I don't even know what comes in a "kit"!

[txbanditrydr]

Jet kit got installed - took lots of pictures and will be putting some kind of report together later.  Started right up and ran pretty good - didn't have to re-do anything at this point.  Even with the stock exhaust the bike ran better... less idle stumble and smoother throughout. 

Also stuck an aftermarket pipe on (Wileco) but have to wait for some gasket sealant to cure before I can test that out.  I have no idea on what impact to the fuel mileage will be but should have a better idea in a week or so.  There was quite a bit of crud in the bowls and I wonder if a good cleaning by itself would have helped.   

[Red01]

I don't know how prominent E10 is in TN, but around here, you can find plenty of stations that sell "E0", you just have to watch for the ethanol labels (or more specifically, the lack there of) on the pumps.

Everything is labeled to say "may contain" or "does contain" up to 10% ethanol.  Nobody advertises having E0, unlike stations in the stories I've read online.  I think I got a good tank of gas a couple weeks ago in the county north of mine while riding the MRT.  But it was a typical modern BP station with the same "may contain" label. 

Nobody advertises "E0" around here (nor do they advertise E10), you have to look at the labels, too. Mostly just ARCO and some Union 76 stations lace gas with alcohol in my area.  I guess your proximity to the nation's grain belt makes it more popular for all the brands.

[Sven]

Jet kit got installed - took lots of pictures and will be putting some kind of report together later.

I'm still interested in seeing pics and understanding better what this process entails.  I found this article which explained the basics.  How did you pick which kit to buy?  Did you have some way to measure the correct setting, or just look for a nice even idle?  http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/motorcycle_jet_kits_carburetion/index.html