Author Topic: Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest  (Read 23464 times)

Offline Big Bo

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2007, 04:30:56 AM »
I was hoping that Suz would put something to compete with the FZ1 and Z1000. I want 140hp+, comfort, speed, power and reliability. I want that hit! I also want to ride all day without my shoulders hurting.
2002 Silver 1200S
Two Brothers slip on
Busa shock
Power Bronze Hugger
Zero Gravity Double Bubble
Ivan`s jet kit and air box mod

Ya gota love a 1200 torque monster.

Offline Lmario

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2007, 05:15:47 AM »
@zenman

"It's funny how many negative opinions already exist about a motorcycle that nobody has ridden yet, or even read about anybody else riding one. "

nobody ???? :?:  :roll: (btw the same goes for positive opinions.)

"Has it occured to anyone that Suzuki is doing the same thing with the '07 that it did with the original Bandit... putting out a "wolf in sheep's clothing"? "

Suzuki state that the GSR and B-King are their new naked "wolfpack". And since the GSR-600 already has the same amount of HP as the 1250 bandit(and is a lot lighter!),I guess they may have a point.
I'm responsable for the contacts with Suzuki for the national bandit club overhere, so I sometimes have things first hand. (Hell, whe had the 650 for a three month test  before it was launced..that was fun!) So i'm just telling you the Suzuki point of view as I received it.(wll actually, I must agree with them if I see what markets they address with all their models.)

However, I do not consider the 1250 to be a sheep, it has too much  torque for that. But a good, solid(?), strong workshorse it is. It is an evolution, not a revolution.
And meeting the Euro3 eco-rules were a major goal in the development.

Yes, it may (or may not) be a great bike to tweak.
If you can get 25 bhp more out of the engine, tweak the suspension etc. etc, then yes, you are doing exactly what most of us have been doing over the past 10 years with our bandits. So, yes it is a Bandit and I will be following your improvements with much interest!

But for me it just is not the "next step" after my current 1200.(which is "under improvement" every winter... :wink: )
But if you can get rid of  ,let's say, at least 25kg and get over 125bhp out of the engine without spending big money on it, I will be applauding for you!

So, keep me (us?) posted!
Life starts at (2)40.....

Offline ZenMan

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2007, 11:03:44 AM »
Quote from: "Lmario"
@zenman
"It's funny how many negative opinions already exist about a motorcycle that nobody has ridden yet, or even read about anybody else riding one.

nobody ???? :?:  :roll: (btw the same goes for positive opinions.)

Nobody here has ridden the new 1250, that I'm aware of. Including those that are so quick to condemn it.

Yeah, statements like "a sub-par toy to satisfy club culture drama", "Buck Rogers vanilla styling", "basic half hearted technology", and "minuscule performance gains" are pretty negative comments, especially from a guy that's never even seen the bike in person. I just don't see the purpose in making those kind of quips, other than to childishly diminish other's enthusiasm.
Quote from: "Lmario"

Yes, it may (or may not) be a great bike to tweak.
If you can get 25 bhp more out of the engine, tweak the suspension etc. etc, then yes, you are doing exactly what most of us have been doing over the past 10 years with our bandits. So, yes it is a Bandit and I will be following your improvements with much interest!

if you can get rid of  ,let's say, at least 25kg and get over 125bhp out of the engine without spending big money on it, I will be applauding for you!

So, keep me (us?) posted!

Yes I definitely will! And thanks for the insight, and the words of encouragement.  :thanks:

I think the horsepower gains will be ridiculously easy. Having experience with digital fuel injection and emissions control, I already know how much a catatlytic converter restricts performance, and how easy it is to reprogram a computer for significant HP's.

The weight will be a little more difficult, but the initial 12-15 lbs. will disappear with the converter. That alone brings it close to the '06 model, but after that I'm not too concerned with the weight. I'd be happy with a 480 lb. 125 hp motorcycle, and I think achieving that with the 1250 will be economical and within the abilities of the average rider.

Remember, my goal is not to build a drag-bike or road-race bike here. I plan on using it mainly for sport-touring and general blasting around. My biggest interest lies with getting the most out of this bike without going inside the motor, or spending more than around $1000.

The biggest technological improvement is the fuel injection and the liquid cooling. If you've never had fuel injection, then you can't know what an absolute dream it is. Smooth and instantaneous power, like riding a jet. No "throttle lag" or constantly tweaking carbs, just plug in a box and presto!

And for those of you complaining that it isn't a fire-breathing monster out of the box, go buy a Hayabusa. If you can afford the insurance, that is...  :roll:
"Hmmm... near certainty of death with little chance of success... what are we waiting for?"

Offline Red01

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2007, 05:21:41 PM »
Quote from: "Big Bo"
I was hoping that Suz would put something to compete with the FZ1 and Z1000. I want 140hp+, comfort, speed, power and reliability. I want that hit! I also want to ride all day without my shoulders hurting.


I guess the Bandit line has surrendered those tasks to the new B-King. Seems the Bandit is giving up any pretentions at being an out-of-the-box streetfighter/hooligan machine and settling for being a best-bang-for-the-buck all-arounder (which the older ones did well, too) since it's not trying to keep pace with bikes like the FZ1, Z1000, Speed Triple, etc.
Paul
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2010 Concours 14ABS
(07/2010-current)


Offline Red01

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2007, 05:51:40 PM »
Quote from: "ZenMan"
What gets me is the fact that the only thing that's different about the new bike is the engine... yet some folks complain about the "styling" and handling of the '07 even though it's the same chassis and suspension, fairing and seat as the '06 model.  :duh:


It's styling is "new" to the US market since the US didn't get the '06... and handling was not the strongest in class with the 2G models. Given the 3G & 3.5G still use the same basic chassis specs and downgraded front brakes (with an ABS option not offered since early 1G models), don't expect any rave reviews from the moto-journalists.

Quote
Ok, granted, the engine is the heart of the beast. No, it's not the same old GSXR-based power-plant. But are us 1250 buyers the only ones to see past the numbers (or lack of) and realize what is hidden behind the finless silver exterior, the over-size muffler/catalytic converter and the detuned fuel system and computer?

Has it occured to anyone that Suzuki is doing the same thing with the '07 that it did with the original Bandit... putting out a "wolf in sheep's clothing"?


What Suzuki did with the orignal Bandit was take a sportbike motor and put it in a more ergonomicallly friendly chassis. In the process, they de-tuned the motor a little - perhaps to keep it from taking sales away from the GSX-R or for other reasons I don't understand. After several years of complaints from potential buyers, they finally came out with the 600, 750 & 1200 versions of this idea.

I honestly hope this new motor is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but to the minds of some us here, the fact that it's an all-new motor and not a GSX-R derived motor takes away some of what we percieve all the previous versions of Bandits to be - user-friendly Gixxers. Had they chosen to use a GSX-R1000 or GSX1300R based motor and stepped up to - or at least toward - the front of the class in power, owners of older Bandits might be convinced to buy a new one... it's just there's not enough improvements in the new bike on paper to convice most current owners to run out and plunk some money down on a new Bandit. Not that we're saying it's a POS, just no reason to get off the old bike.

Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the first Bandit came out, there were many nay-sayers and negative attitudes about it, were there not? "It's just a de-tuned GSXR motor, it's under-powered, it's cheap, it's a marketing trick meant for suckers, why not just buy a real motorcycle, I'm not wasting my money on this thing, etc, etc".... sound familiar?


I think you're wrong there. I don't recall any naysayers when the B4 came out. The press LOVED it. Or the bigger versions for that matter. About the only thing people wondered was, why did they de-tune it? The naysaying came along when other brands started to build bikes of this sort and made improvements & updates. Sometimes these backfired though, just take a look at all the negativity that's been written about the new FZ1.
Paul
2001 GSF1200S
(04/2001-03/2012)
2010 Concours 14ABS
(07/2010-current)


Offline Desolation Angel

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2007, 12:02:52 PM »
I like all the Bandits so far for their Swiss Army knife-like capabilties.  I wish mine was fuel injected.  I wish it was watercooled.  I'd like a shaft option, too, but I guess that ain't never comin'.  I'd like the weight kept down, but I guess that can be addressed with aftermarket exhaust systems and other parts.

I can't wait to see the new one in the dealership.  I hope he decides to stock them so I can at least see them up close.  I won't be buying one now that I've got mine all set up the way I like it, but if I could wave my magic wand...

Offline Lmario

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2007, 06:29:39 PM »
OK, lets get some real riding experioence into this thread..... :roll:

A testride overhere gave the following result in the German magazine "motorrad". I tried to translate it in proper english, hope I did it good enough.....


Save the Ribs!
" Now they already save on the ribs ", the bandit community may complain. And at the same time be glad that the bandit remained, nevertheless, a bandit.
Even completely without the cooling ribs.
One thing is clear: If it had gone according to the Suzuki businessmen, there would have been the bandit in the present form for the next 35 years. Including these incredible, well chased chill ribs. With carburettors instead of injection - yes, simply all that already ran since nineteenhundredsomething like it sold itself. And every year again a place in the top of the sales-hit list.
Practically without development expenses and new machine park in the factory.
And then this! Euro-3 rules everything. Well, at least, for every brand that sells more than a handfull of bikes per year. For the bandit this meanth: Now it is finally over for the ribs. With the whole ancient engine which derived his family tree directly from the 1984 GSX R.
Modern times, from now on also for old robbers.
But it is a fact that the bandit remained of course, nevertheless, a bandit - who wants to blame the boys in Hamamatsu for it?. On the contrary: to keep a front-line soldier in honour is not only friendly, it may be a clever marketing strategy. Since at least the European motorcyclist turned grey together with his bandit, so now still wants precisely the same: thanks to the big capacity a quick run form deep within the rpm range to the redline, but also to cruise calmly and mellow around the corner. All the same, whether with or without ribs.
Thus it is only logical that the new bandit looks almost just like her predecessor. Clear, the engine stings immediately in the eye. But otherwise? One must be an expert to discover other differences. The only evident one: With the cubic capacity the silencer grew. The weight likewise increased (from 243 to 254 kilogramme), and the tank volume shrank from 20 to 19 litre. The price rose in the S. version - in each case now including ABS - from 8,280 to 8,735 euros.
With which the bandit became more expensive, indeed, but in spite of the Honda's fight announcement with the CBF 1000, remains the most favorable offer of her class. Tradition just obliges. Therefore, it is also no miracle that The 1250 does not put everything upside down concerning the well-tried talents. On the contrary: The bandit preserves even in these hectic times the calmness of the predecessor and increases driving-dynamics at the same time. Not the world, but enough to form a new experience ,new and full of suspense.
Differently already at the start. No more messing with the choke, the electronic injection takes command and gives the mighty block -which has to owe his cubic capacity increase of nearly 100 cubic centimetres to a stroke extension from 59 to 64 millimetre-, from the first rotation to a stable running at tickover with about 1500 / min. The traditionalists will agree with this too. And this is how a modern four cylinder accepts its gas. Completely without midges of the carburettor era, immediately on the first metres. And a little memory penetrates immediately into the consciousness: The partly vigourous vibrations of the old bandit,still  exist (rudimmentary) with the new engine at best in the lower speed area. Beyond the 2000rpm the bigblock purrs like grandmas Mimmi after a mouthfull of Whiskas.
But be aware: Who finds this "small stuff", should not be deceived . The big Suzuki pushes it, in spite of all its "low down relaxtness" definitely and quickly forwards. 115.4 newton metres at 3500rpm are an attack on the drivetrain, particularly as the 4-valve engine can preserve this level on a plateau about the following 3000rpm to a great extent. So far the good news...
 
The bad one: The bandit has a very long final drive. The sixth gear of the new, compact gearbox is so long that he would be good theoretically for more than 280 km/h. This is good enough form calm cruising, thanks to the immense torque even in the new sixth and still good enough for some fast twisties. But the enormous powers which would be expected in view of this charakteristik vapourize between crankshaft and back wheel. No more power arrives at the rear tyre than with the predecessor. Beyond 180 km/h - this corresponds to about 7000 / min - the old bandit even has advantages in this matter. But these speeds and RPM orgies usually only play a subordinated role with this big bike. Practically from tickover to the 7000th region without glitches or holes, that is what counts. And this, the nw bandit still does as well as before.
Indeed, the gasresponse is a bit rough in spite of two throttle valves of the engine, the gear hard to be switched and high hand strength is required by the new coupling with plate feathers.
The relaxed seat position (seat height adjustable as before) has not changed luckily. There are no uncomfortable rough edges, and behind the likewise unchanged fairing of the S. version one still enjoys a well-arranged and turbulence free ride. In the second row nothing has changed likewise. Unfortunately, because comfort was not outstanding for the Copilot on the old bandit in the first place.
Above the mighty silencer the passenger's footrests are about 1 centimetre further to the back. With the result that the backbenchers can hardly support themselves with the feet and easily slide over the pegs. This may play no role in sportsman's circles, it does in the bandit's world. Especially because the 1250 has the chassis and dimensions, finally, for 2-person rides. Although nothing changed on paper, the chassis of the 2007 presents itself more fresh - and harder - than ever. Indeed, this costs a little comfort because the response of fork and suspension is a little bit stubborn, with a clear plus meanwhile in feedback. An it has the reserves that engaged bandit driver missed up to now.
However, as with the engine a distinctive shade also falls here on the bright light, namely in form of the Dunlop D 218, in front in "T"-, behind in "N" specification. These tyres already functioned at best "reasonable" with the predecessor. In the new, tauter periphery they deliver a little persuading image. This leads to a distinctive "own" steering behaviour which makes constant counterpressure on the bars necessary, as well as a massive response on uneven surface which requires frequent corrections.
Therefore, MOTORCYCLE did the test on the example and installed a set of Michelin pilot Road. And look...., all of a sudden the bandit appeared as transformed. Clearly more comfortable, more neutral and more exact steering.
The result was that the tyres put the bike back in the right light. Consequently it is the tyre choice which can  destroye the joy in the new 1250th.
While in view of the spotlessly drawn engine with central cam waves one can simply renounce the need for a chill rib.


Note: this is a "best effort" translation of an article of MOTORRAD and does not express my personal views! :wink:
Want to know more? buy the mag!
Life starts at (2)40.....

Offline ZenMan

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« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2007, 07:08:38 PM »
:thanks:  Thanks, Lmario, for taking the time to translate all that! (and for getting this thread back on topic)

It comes off a little strange through translation at times, but overall a good review in my opinion. I suspected the fuel injection would be an impressive improvement...  :bigok:
It also reinforces my anticipation of gobs of delicious torque!  :banana:  And explains the lower redline... quite a longer stroke. I'm pleased to hear how much smoother it is at cruising speeds.  :motorsmile:

The part about the final drive is interesting.... sounds like a very tall 6th gear, which might be a good thing for fuel economy at freeway speeds. It also indicates that a simple front-and-rear sprocket change would do wonders. I like the idea of a 6th-gear "overdrive" though.

The thing about the Dunlops is actually welcome news... it gives me a good excuse to burn the damn things off quickly, the sooner to replace them with Michelins or other good rubber. It's nice to know the only handling complaints were due to inadequate tires!

Granted, it's only one review, but it's like a drink of water in the desert for those of us anxiously awaiting the arrival of our own '07's... thanks again, Lmario!  :beers:
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Offline ZOOMER

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« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2007, 09:13:07 PM »
Very cool review!
Loads and loads of TORQUE! I'm drooling!  :banana:
Thanks, Lmario!  :bigok:
ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Offline solman

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2007, 10:28:15 PM »
Quote
The big Suzuki pushes it, in spite of all its "low down relaxtness" definitely and quickly forwards. 115.4 newton metres at 3500rpm


What does this translate to?  I would like to know what the hp and torque is going to be at.
03 Naked Bandit 1200 <br />Vitamin B12, its great for the soul!

Offline ZenMan

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« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2007, 11:27:00 PM »
Solman...

100 newton/meters = 73.7 ft.-lbs. torque.

So 115.4 n/m's at 3500 rpm comes out to roughly 85 ft.-lbs. torque.

The '06 Bandit 1200 was rated at 91.7 n/m's at 6500 rpm, which translates to about 67 ft.-lbs. torque.

So that's about 18 ft.-lbs. more torque than the '06, at 3000 less rpm's.

Awesome...  :bigok:

I just figured it off the top of my head, so the numbers aren't exact. Excuse me if I'm off a little.

No horsepower specs yet that I can find... anybody?
"Hmmm... near certainty of death with little chance of success... what are we waiting for?"

Offline solman

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« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2007, 12:43:35 AM »
85 ft lbs of torque would definitely be a jump in torque from 72 ft lbs.
03 Naked Bandit 1200 <br />Vitamin B12, its great for the soul!

Offline ZenMan

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« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2007, 01:12:03 AM »
We made the cover!

Ad a peek inside:
"Hmmm... near certainty of death with little chance of success... what are we waiting for?"

Offline Lmario

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Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2007, 06:38:52 AM »
The official Suzuki Europe numbers are:
72,0 kW (98 pk)/7.500 t.p.m.
108,0 Nm/3.700 t.p.m.
Motorrad measured 115Nm, so looks like Suzuki is on the safe side.. :banana:

About the translation, I tried to translate the exact German phrases to English. I wanted to make sure the text was as close as possible to how the author did it in German. Since German is not my native language -and neither is English- it may look a bit like babblefish.

Mario
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Offline ZenMan

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« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2007, 09:55:21 AM »
Quote from: "Lmario"
The official Suzuki Europe numbers are:
72,0 kW (98 pk)/7.500 t.p.m.
108,0 Nm/3.700 t.p.m.
Motorrad measured 115Nm, so looks like Suzuki is on the safe side.. :banana:

Most of the specs Suzuki puts out for the Bandits are very conservative. They claim only 98 HP but most dyno tests read well over 100 HP, even for the older 1200's. It keeps the insurances rates down and justifies the "standard" category.

That's one very important point for many folks... low insurance rates. Sure, if you want big HP specs than go buy a Busa or an ZX14, but you'll pay 5-10 times the insurance on top of the heftier sales price. Some people just don't get that.

Bottom line is I trust independent dyno tests much more than Suzuki numbers... and the only one we have so far is your Motorrad test, which shows a huge torque increase over last year's 1200. I'd bet the HP's are gonna be a bit higher too, in the real world.

Quote from: "Lmario"
About the translation, I tried to translate the exact German phrases to English. I wanted to make sure the text was as close as possible to how the author did it in German. Since German is not my native language -and neither is English- it may look a bit like babblefish.

Mario

That's ok,it just makes it more interesting! We can still see what the different phrases mean... for example, where your translation says "Completely without midges of the carburettor era", we would see that as "bugs". Since a "midge" is a type of "bug" it works out the same, but different.  :motorsmile:

It must have taken you awhile to translate all that... we do appreciate it, Lmario!  :thanks:
"Hmmm... near certainty of death with little chance of success... what are we waiting for?"