Author Topic: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?  (Read 6778 times)

Offline bdouvill

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GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« on: February 13, 2013, 12:28:05 PM »
Hi,

I own a 1992 GSF Bandit since 3 years. It's my 1st bike and I love it. I'd like to keep it as long as I can but some things need some reasonable upgrade.

In France, we only officially got the model with a single front disc and with black paint steel exhaust (which has been eaten by rust for a long time now). I already got a stainless steel version of the exhaust from Ebay in the UK. I also upgrade the rear shock for a 2000-2003 GSX-R one (from Showa I think) and will go through the fork update (with Gold Valve emulator) soon.

Here is my current problem. I feel the front brake could be better: the bike has the same double pistons floating caliper than a 500 GSE with 310 diameter disc. I do not want to go through a full fork upgrade: I would need to change the front wheel too (mine only has holes for one disc, the other side has no holes), whole front-end from a UK version Bandit 400 (the one with the dual disc) are no so easy to find on Ebay UK and 750 GSXR complete front-end are far too expensive here in France (almost the price I paid for the bike which is a non-sense).

So I wonder if in all front calipers mounted on Suzuki bikes in the 90's, one model would match on my bike without modifying anything and would give me more braking power. For example, I have no idea if Tokico front calipers from B400 with dual discs can be mounted on fork legs designed for single disc. I believe they are more powerful than the one that I have on my bike.

Does anyone know about that?

Many thanks in advance.
Benoit.
Bandit 400 1992, 1st bike.

Offline ZeMrHyde

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2013, 01:34:11 PM »
Hi !
I'm new here and I have a B400 since only a couple of month.
I was looking for the same thing but I didn't find the right answer...
Actually I just equipped the front brake with brand new EBC XC Series front disc, EBC HH brake pads, FZS1000 front master caliper, and stainless brake line.
For say, it's not bad at all ...  :trustme:

From which part of the french riviera are you ?   :beers:

Offline bdouvill

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2013, 04:09:44 PM »
I have EBC HH Brake pads also (which are great) but my front disc is used and needs to be replaced. I just got a 650 SVS front master cylinder but I have no time to install it yet.

@ZeMrHyde: I live in Antibes and works in Sophia Antipolis. Maybe send me a private message so we can arrange to meet sometimes ;-)
Benoit.
Bandit 400 1992, 1st bike.

Offline bullet5

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2013, 07:07:39 PM »
Hello there, it would probably be best looking through a GS forum. They are a very common bike over here in the UK, so I'm more than sure people will have swapped the front caliper/braking system already, with guides.

However you can go the Jap 400 route if you wish. There is a chap on the Banditforum.co.uk who is selling the front end of his jap 400. He is swapping it out for gsxr forks, so doesn't need it anymore.

Here's a link to the page:
http://www.banditforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=56823.0

I find that a full service (new seals and completely new oil), along with a propper clean up, grease and pads makes a hell of a difference, however if they are still not to your liking you'll more than likely have to buy the complete front brake assembly from another bike, due to the piston ratios used.

Help this helps somewhat,
Bullet5. :thumb:

Offline tomacGTi

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2013, 10:09:33 PM »

Offline Nickelodeon

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2013, 11:59:06 PM »
I went with a new chinese front laser cut rotor(ebay), rebuilt/repainted(red) the front caliper using high temp silicone caliper grease, EBC HH pads, and a stainless line and it works great.

When I was younger I used to race an R6 and I'm still pretty decent with braking.

If I was going to complain I'd say there is still a little lack of feedback, but there is NO lack of power...I can't get it to fade either. I'd say single disk is more than enough with the above mods.

If I wanted to work on feedback a bit I'd probably monkey around with the master cylinder, but it's good enough for street work.

Offline bdouvill

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2013, 05:39:29 AM »
Thank you all for your answer.

I think I'll go first for a rebuilt of the front caliper and also of the master cylinder (the SVS one that I just got) with a new front disc and pads.

I still have a few questions:
- Does chinese front discs that you can find on ebay for less than 100 euros are reliable? Braking is not an area where economy should take the precedence.
- I have the french version of the Suzuki service manual and regarding the front caliper service, I do not believe that they mention grease (even high temp one), they just say to use new brake fluid to re-assemble the pistons within the caliper. Am I missing something?
- For the stainless line, I have one that I ordered from a shop that makes it from what you ask: length, one or two calipers,... I ordered one in one part when the default was using two parts (I believed it would be more efficient that 2 parts), I measured the total length of the original rubber line to 90cm approximately and I found that the stainless one I received seems too long when mounted (like 80cm should be enough). I can not figure if it's a problem or not. I do not believe it is since it is using hydraulic pressure and it's the same principle used for example in planes. Could you confirm?

Thanks again for your help.
Benoit.
Bandit 400 1992, 1st bike.

Offline tomacGTi

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2013, 10:48:12 AM »
Do not use the SV master cylinder: it is made for moving more fluid (17 or 19mm bore IIRC) for an additional caliper and will have very limited travel in comparison to the correct master cylinder (13mm) already on the bike.

It will feel very wooden and have little to no feel at all. The illusion of more power is because it is moving too much fluid for the amount of piston you have. Your lever travel will be very limited. I've done it, I took it off immediately.

Use the one piece stainless line from the master to the caliper and bypass the factory splitter.

In the post I pasted, if you're looking for even more: do the GSXR conversion I did. Doing trackdays it was all I needed. Most cost effective are better pads, stock rotor is fine if within spec and stainless line. Anything else you're looking at a fork swap and unless you get it very cheap, you may as well upgrade the whole bike.

Bon courage.

-Randy

Offline Nickelodeon

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2013, 10:50:31 PM »
"- Does chinese front discs that you can find on ebay for less than 100 euros are reliable?"

My stock was below the service limit, the chinese version from e-bay has taken quite a bit of abuse from me with no problems.

"- I have the french version of the Suzuki service manual and regarding the front caliper service, I do not believe that they mention grease (even high temp one), they just say to use new brake fluid to re-assemble the pistons within the caliper. Am I missing something?"

Yes, the caliper slide pins-use a high temp pin grease. I used Motul 600 for the oil as well(high temp, low hydroscopic).


Offline TJS

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 09:41:36 PM »
1988 and 1989 gsxr 750 complete front end will boly up with no modifications. So will all gsxr front ends from 88-95.
More Bandit 400 stuff on my youtube:
https://youtube.com/c/StanleysGarage369

Offline Voluted

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Re: GSF 400 Brake upgrade?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2022, 12:06:28 PM »
To anyone else looking up options for your Bandit, I'll add my feedback:

- EBC replacement single disk
- EBC HH brake pads
- Rebuilt stock 2 piston caliper
- HEL Braided SS brake lines
- Brembo 13mm master cylinder from an Aprillia Pegaso 650 (bolts up no problem, but have to rewire the switch to plug into the harness)

The replacement pads and SS lines resulted in a noticeable improvement to braking power while the Brembo master offers more progressive and predictable brake feel while nearly eliminating lever slop. Many other 13mm Brembo OEM master cylinders should work as well.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 12:08:07 PM by Voluted »