Author Topic: Did another track day on my Bandit 400  (Read 2960 times)

Offline erik

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Did another track day on my Bandit 400
« on: March 29, 2009, 12:47:57 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHBdD7yAudc

0.85kg/mm fork springs, gsxr1100 shock, Sport Demon tyres. 95,000km!

I hadn't done a track day on my bandit since May last year. Been doing them on my SV650S. It was an interesting change.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 12:49:34 AM by erik »

Offline erik

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Re: Did another track day on my Bandit 400
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2009, 03:56:28 AM »
photos:


Offline tomacGTi

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Re: Did another track day on my Bandit 400
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2009, 12:14:00 PM »
Out of curiosity Eric, how would you compare the two?

I've been curious myself and was wondering how the two stack up side by side. Paper-wise, the SV wins in just about all aspects and modded, same deal. Would like to hear your first hand experience, good or bad.


Offline erik

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Re: Did another track day on my Bandit 400
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 03:38:54 AM »
I can compare them, but since I've modified the suspension on both to differing degrees and they both have different tyres, plus my bandit needs a tune since it has a significant flat spot around 6000rpm, it's not really a fair comparison.

I used to have 1999 R1 springs in the forks on my bandit, but recently realised they were in fact too large a diameter and binding a bit causing friction. With the 0.85kg/mm springs in the forks, the front end is heaps better. I only had 10w oil in it though and no emulators, so it didn't have much low speed damping which was really noticeable (compared to the 20w oil and emulators in the sv), I had to be smoother with the brakes and throttle during cornering. The GSXR1100 rear shock hasn't got much damping either, I still need to rebuild it.

I'm not sure if it was because of the front end damping or the front tyre or the standard handle bar position, but I didn't feel as confident braking really hard with the bandit compared to the sv. The front brakes on my bandit actually have more of a bite than the sv's brakes though. Same front discs, but the twin disc bandit has 4 pot opposed piston callipers compared to the sv's 2 pot sliding callipers.

I was having a bit of trouble making a smooth transition from braking to getting on the gas in corners. If I had the bandit in too low a gear, the revs were likely to drop too much and then snatch when the drivetrain slack caught up. In a higher gear it was easier to keep the engine revving and be smooth, but then I'd have to change up sooner. I think this was partly due to the bandit's narrower power band but probably a lot to do with the flat spot my bandit has. Coming out of corners, the power band surprised me a couple of times how hard it was pulling (I'd be in trouble on a sports 600 I think...  :wink: ). Like it wasn't pulling much at first then fairly suddenly it was gaining momentum quickly. But again that might be the poor tuning on my bike. The sv's wider power band and higher power output makes it accelerate out of corners whereas the bandit almost seems like it isn't really accelerating much until it's almost time to change up a gear. One good point for the bandit is the higher rev limit. When I first went to the sv, I was surprised how easily it was to get to the rev limiter (10,500rpm iirc), it pulled fairly strongly right up to the point where the limiter cuts in, whereas with the bandit it just keeps revving until the power starts to taper off somewhere near the 13,000rpm redline. I've gotten used to shifting earlier on the sv now though, it's not really a downside, just a difference that was particularly apparent when I first got the sv. I'm still not sure if I prefer twins or inline 4's, they both have their good points.

I prefer the shape of the bandit's tank and seat for hanging off. I'm 6'4" and my knees don't fit in the tank cut-out on the sv, the top of the sv tank is quite wide which my knees hit and makes it a bit awkward trying to put my weight on the outside peg when hanging off.

I suspect the frame on the bandit is slighty less stiff than the sv's. It seems to shake more going over bumps etc (it was particularly bad with the R1 fork springs in). It's hard to say if this affected things on the track, particularly when the sv has emulators and the bandit doesn't and they both have different tyres.

Tyres on the sv are Metzler M3's (120/70-17 front, 160/60-17 rear). I used to have a Diablo Rosso on the front and standard Diablo on the back, but the back tyre would let go far too easily. The M3's have more grip.
The bandit has nice and cheap Sport Demons (a cross ply tyre)(110/70-17 front, 150/70-17 rear iirc). Last track day I did on it it had Dunlop GT501's, but I rolled off the edge of the rear tyre a couple of times. The Sport Demons have a better profile (gets to the edge about the same time the pegs touch down compared to going over the edge on the GT501 before touching a peg!). I was quite pleased with how well they performed, I had no problems with grip. I think I scraped the pegs once or twice. The sv probably has a little more cornering clearance and I'm pretty sure the M3's are stickier than the Sport Demons, but the Sport Demons are a good match for the bandit.


I don't know if you can make anything out from that muddled comparison, but there you go.  :grin:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 04:29:01 AM by erik »

Offline tomacGTi

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Re: Did another track day on my Bandit 400
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 10:40:43 AM »
Hey man, I figured it right out and confirmed a couple of suspicions I had as far as comparisons go. Glad to hear some first hand comparison.

I know when I'm riding with others that I'm down (way down) on HP in most cases so I try to keep the throttle as smooth as I can and maintain as much cornerspeed since the jump out isn't as snappy as other bikes (very much the case if the revs drop too low). Suspension and jetting helps here for sure, as I said, your little review helps confirm that.

From my personal experience: suspension work (emulators and a newer shock) really helped out in braking and corner exit. Throttle is still a little snatchy due to the driveline, jetting helps but doesn't completely alleviate the problem.

I've got nothing for comparison as far as chassis stiffness. I know the SV is all-aluminum and that's got to help as well as lower miles. Mine doesn't quite have 95k (close to 75km for me) but it has seen the ground once or twice so that certainly can't help.

Maybe a brake upgrade is in order for the SV? Seems the one piece missing from that puzzle? Suspension and jetting for the Bandit to even the playing field slightly?



Offline Chris H

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Re: Did another track day on my Bandit 400
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 03:59:38 PM »
Hi erik,
Watched your vid, looked most enjoyable, show the fun you can have on a B4. THey maynot be to quick down thw straight but you were all over the bigger bikes in the corners. Is the bike a jap model twin disc model? ive got uk and jap and the jap has the clipons, these give a lot more feel and so confidence in the front, the B4 was designed to have the clipons and the riser type were only put on to make the bike cheaper and to appeal to the small bike commuter in europe. I fitted the GSXR4 rear end to my B4 and this transforms the bike into a full scratcher! its shorter and with the rear lifted about an inch gives massess of confidence. Its nice and you just get a nice light bar shake at the top end.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 04:38:32 PM by Chris H »

Offline erik

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Re: Did another track day on my Bandit 400
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 04:05:28 PM »
The sv's brakes aren't too bad, you just have to squeeze a bit harder. I think racier pads would help with the bite a bit. I'm definitely going to pull the bandit's gsxr1100 rear shock apart and see what condition the oil is in and if I can improve it. Maybe now would be a good time to learn about jetting as well. I've got to get another set of fork springs because at the moment the sv has it's stock (way too soft) springs in, I'm just not sure if I want the same weight or if I should try heavier or lighter springs. Emulators would be nice but they're not cheap and its an old bike.

Chris, yeah, it's the twin disc model (not vtech though).