Author Topic: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.  (Read 34530 times)

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #120 on: March 26, 2012, 12:22:20 PM »
1-4


super rich


better


ehh


decent

Ok I thought I would do a 1/4 turn in on 1, maybe an 1/8 on the others? 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 12:39:33 PM by mpatrick »

Offline rider123

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #121 on: March 26, 2012, 12:48:50 PM »
Yeah you could try that, you might want to wait for the K&N, but the best way to do the mixture screws is let it idle for a min or two and then pull the plugs, then you know 100% you're just dealing with the pilot screws, they will show rich, but don't sweat it just make sure they are even.
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #122 on: March 26, 2012, 12:55:46 PM »
just got the tracking on the filter should have it thurs. I'm gonna do the screws just for the phuck of it, I like seeing what happens when you change things. 

Offline rider123

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #123 on: March 26, 2012, 06:04:54 PM »
Sure why not, you can always turn them back. They aren't looking that bad at all just need some more air, with the K&N in there that problem will be solved. If you get your plugs to number 4 without the black smudges you'll be good.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 07:27:35 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #124 on: March 30, 2012, 03:07:02 PM »
put the k&n in and now I have a pretty bad stumble off idle, and when giving it a handful of throttle it bogs down pretty bad. It died on me twice when leaving lights this morning. Thats too lean right?

EDIT: Nevermind im and idiot I didnt get the airbox lid all the way fulsh when i put the filter on.

EDIT EDIT: I was wrong its still doing it with the airbox seated right. I had to cover the 2nd hole i made up to get it not to die on medium throttle input. what do yall think?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 05:42:42 PM by mpatrick »

Offline rider123

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #125 on: March 30, 2012, 07:36:26 PM »
Lets take a look at the plugs. Maybe turn them all out to 3.75 for now just to giver her a little more juice. Since you went DOWN on the pilots you pilots are actually leaner than stock. You may have to pop in the stockers again. I know it says in the kit to go down on the pilots, I'm not sure that would be a good idea until you try it. Another option is to stick the DB killer back on there which will increase the back pressure a bit and richen it up.
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #126 on: March 30, 2012, 08:29:27 PM »
extra 2 inch hole covered, snorkel out, db killer installed 3 1/2 turns out. 15 miles pretty aggressive highway riding (90mph+).



#1


#2 not as light as it looks pretty tan


#3


#4

They all look pretty tan all the way to base of the ceramic.
It did run pretty good on this set up, wheelies pretty easy. Feels pretty smooth with most throttle postions, super light throttle is still a little jerky.

Offline rider123

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #127 on: March 30, 2012, 08:56:40 PM »
Your plugs, while still being a little rich look alot better. If you this sort of combo would serve you better, it's best to jet around this combo. It looks like the mainjet is a little rich. Maybe a step down 1 would clean up the plugs and make the transitions between fueling circuits not so abrupt which will smooth everything out a bit. Number 1 is still a little rich, did you turn it a 1/4 turn in compared to the others, it would smooth the bike out alot that the reason it's a little jerky. Had the same problem with number 1 have it almost 1/4 turn in from the others and bike is smooth as silk and plugs look identical. How many shims? Looks a little rich in the mid-range, hard to tell light so bright going down one on the mainjet would help cure it though. Its up to you, looks a little rich to me but if it drives ok might be better to put up with the richness up top. I think to be honest if it was me I wouldn't have gone 1 down on the pilot since that's the most critical to cruise smoothness I guess you could pop in  the stock to find out. If I was going to stick with this combo you have I'd probably go one or even two down on the mains and maybe pop the stock pilots in there. If you pop the stock pilots in there you may be able to open up the 2" hole and get some more ponies out of her with the same mainjet. Up to you but your within 1 or 2 sizes of being good. Very close now.

A good test if you so choose to do it would be this:

pop in stock pilot untape 2" hole, try and adjust for it. If still too much air, maybe keep DB installed

Keep stock pilot in there, cover hole go down 1 or 2(most likely on mains) or keep mains and try with DB killer OUT.



A good simulation is take out the DB killer with the hole taped up and turn the mixture screws to 3.75 or 4 if necessary to keep the fueling up. If still too rich maybe untape half the hole or all of it. At 4 turns out your in the same league as the stock pilots(37.5) at the stock setting(2.5 turns out). After 4.25 though the screws lose alot of accuracy. Another test is do the same thing but untape the hole and keep the DB killer in. Since you have a short pipe it's going to flow alot so even withthe DB killer in there you're still going to get lots of power. THe way I see it is that your mainjet is probably perfectly fine with the DB killer in and the hole untaped, however your pilots are weak(hence the off idle stumble). Try this before anything. Take the tape off, keep the DB killer in there and turn the mixture screws out to 4 turns which is a whole half turn from what you have now and see if that helps. If not you can go to 4.25, then it's up on the pilot. You will get more power out of the untaped hole then with it taped if the pilots can give enough fueling. Don't worry too much about smoothness yet we just want to see raw power. My guess is if you went back to the stock pilots at around 3-3.5, untaped the hole and kept the DB killer in you'd probably be spot on.(also the cheapest solution since you already have the stock pilots). You're doing awesome don't give up on us now!  :grin:


Edit: Oh sorry, if you need to clean up the low end because of the leaner pilots, put the snorkle IN but untape the extra 2" hole, that way it's just a step of extra air, not two steps. Also the snorkle in will smooth air intake especially at low rpms. I know with GEN1's they recommend snorkle out but since you have low end leaness/smoothness issues sometimes just putting in the snorkle with smooth/slightly richen the bottom end out, especially since you have a really free flowing exhaust. But if you do pop the snorkle back in the tape should be OFF. Just this alone in conjuction with the 2" extra hole and a mixure screw adjustment may solve your down low leaness issues. Sorry my bad, I just picked up you had the snorkle out(duh on me).


Edit2: After taking another gander at your plugs, I believe I see some sootyness about halfway down the plugs to the bottom. It's kind of hard to see because I don't have the plugs in my hand. You did an excellent job of taking the pictures however there is nothing like having it in your hand for viewing. This re-inforces my belief that you are lean on the pilots but rich on the mainjet/needle. If you look at the top of the electrode you can see that it's very white(lean pilots) and about halfway down or just under you start seeing lots of colour(too much mainjet). So I think that what I was suggesting, take the tape off and richen up the pilots may help you out, especially in larger throttle openings. Maybe it might be worth it to give it a try.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 01:34:05 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #128 on: April 02, 2012, 11:34:44 AM »
Well I did some testing on Saturday, I turned the pilots out to 4 and put the snorkle in, untaped hole, still pretty bad at low openings, and there's no whacking the throttle open it hangs at about 3k before it powers through. I taped up about half the hole and it was better, but not great. Taped up a little more, then it was fine at low throttle and powered through the rpm range. Took it on a good highway ride and after a while it started to feel "soggy", like when putting on the power there was a slight delay and it wasn't quick to speed up, and it smelled rich as well. I think my best bet at this point is too put the stock pilots back in, the bad part is that they got destroyed when i took them out, so I have to order more. Damn I don't know why my bike is the damn exception to the rule but its looking that way.

Offline rider123

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #129 on: April 02, 2012, 03:48:05 PM »
Remember once you pop the stock pilots in the equivilent turns would 1.5 turns in compared with the leaner pilots to get the equivlient mixture. For example if you are at 4 turns out with the 35's that would be 2.5 turns out with the 37.5's, equivilent.
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #130 on: April 02, 2012, 06:13:25 PM »
do you think maybe im just lean in the mid range?, its fine until i get to about 3k or so. Ill try and do a video of what im talking about when i get home. I don't know im just thinking out loud really. I've got 2 shims right now for a total of .040. I just don't get why mine is so different than the majority.

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #131 on: April 02, 2012, 08:01:02 PM »
Here's a quick video it's the bogging down when opening the throttle quickly that I'm talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHvkUema2I8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Offline rider123

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #132 on: April 03, 2012, 02:05:29 AM »
Definatley lean. You could try adding a shim which would add some juice when hitting the throttle. Good video really helps. Add another shim and see how it goes. The equivilent you are using is slightly less that what holeshot is using so adding a shim may fix it right up.

If you do add a shim you may ironically have to reduce the pilots screws a bit but I doubt it you're already leaner on the pilots than stock they should be fine at 3.5 or whatever you have them at.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 08:20:50 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline mpatrick

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #133 on: April 07, 2012, 06:56:52 PM »
Well I may have found a combo that works. I taped the hole up and then drilled 10 3/8's holes, put the snorkel in, pilots at about 3 1/4 for the moment. Bike is running really well, pulls hard through the whole range, no hesitating or surging. Feels like a different bike. I'm gonna pull the plugs after my ride tomorrow, I kinda don't want to pull them just in case  they don't look right.

Offline rider123

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Re: 2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.
« Reply #134 on: April 08, 2012, 09:45:48 AM »
If that works for you keep it. Not every bike is the same. The jetting suggestions are only a guideline so you're not ordering 20 set of jets to find out yourself. If want to make the airbox less ghetto, just order a new lid and reproduce the holes like you have then it looks more professional. I'm not sure about the gen1 but a new lid for gen2 is only like $35 or so. It sounds like you're close, so maybe just adjust slightly around this combo of it works for you. The beauty about the little holes is if you're a little rich, try another hole, etc. The snorkel will help smooth the air especially down low. You want it slightly rich anyway so you're fine.

What I would do is butcher the airbox lid however you want to and have a spare, so after you've done experimenting you can say "OK I need x 3/8" holes in my airbox." Then on the new lid drill the number of holes necessary. Hey get creative, put them in a diamond formation or a square or parallelagram or make a happy face, go nuts! If you drill one too many holes is easy to tape up so you'll know exactly how many you need.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 09:58:35 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.