2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.

[rider123]

You could pop the top off and make sure the needle hasn't popped out of its seat. Happened to me once. There should be a plug attached to a spring with pushes on the needle to make sure its seated if that plug pops out it all goes to hell.

I agree with you it's got to be something simple since the other cylinders are perfectly fine correct? Pop the top cover off there and inspect the diamphram and needle assembly just to rule it out. If you've ruled everything out you can without having to pull the carbs. When you pull them just post and I'll walk you through a few suggestions to try while the carbs are off. At least it's only one carb thats the problem. You could try that float height trick as well just to see that 3 and 4 are sort of jiving in regards to fuel level without pulling the carbs.

[mpatrick]

Yeah all the other cylinders seem to be fine. I'm gonna pop the diaphragm off tonight and check the float levels etc. I wish I wasn't at work right now, I just want to tear into it and get this problem sorted.

[rider123]

Don't sweat it it could be as simple as the needle popping off or the emulsion tube loose or the emulsion tube o-ring pooched or loose jets or something. It literally could be like a 10 second fix or it could not but it's easier to try the 10 second fixes first at least to rule them out.

Hell when my needle plug popped off it was on carb number 1. I didn't have to even take the tank off, I just used a tiny ratchet that accepted 3/4 inch screwdriver bits and unscrewed the cap and popped it back in. I guess I phucked up and didn't seat it properly when adjusting the needles. If you get everything all hunky dory I would consider turning in the mixture screws a 1/4 turn to 3 turns out looks a little rich at idle and down low if that leaner one is what all the others look like.

If you look at the base ring there is full turn of colour but has some black soot on top of the colour and the tips of the electrodes are sooty and black. A little too rich on the mixture screws. Electrode is nice and clean but a little white, probably a little lean at mid-range and wide open throttle, but that will be fixed with jetting. Can be helped alot with a radio shack shim under the needle to richen that area a bit.

Actually just a quick question. When you got the bike did you drill out the mixture screw plugs or were they pre-drilled? You said that the screws were all over the place from 2 to 3 1/2. Was the carb that was only turned to 2 turns out number 3? What I'm thinking is maybe the previous owner was trying to set the mixture screws and maybe screwed the mixture screw in too tight on that cylinder and crushed the pilot screw needle so it's pumping out more fuel per turn than normal. So the equivalent of 3 turns for the other carbs may only be 2 for that carb. Just thinking out loud. When my plugs looked like that is when I had the next larger pilot in there and it was horridly rich down low but not that bad.

[mpatrick]

The mixtures screws where drilled out by a mechanic when the previous owner took it in for service. I'm not totally sure which one was at 2 turns.

I did get a chance to look at the carbs again last night. Nothing seemed wrong with the diaphragms, so I pulled the carbs, and opened them back up. There was some more crud floating around in there but not too much. I cleaned them out blew some cleaner through the passageways and blew them out with compressed air. Checked the float heights again, after reading the manual like 6 times, they were all way off. Reset them to the recommended settings, and while I was at it I shimmed the needles, replaced all the screws with allen head bolts.

There was one problem though when attempting to remove the pilot jets on a couple carbs I found that whomever was in there last really marred them up to the point where the screwdriver wouldn't grab. They are all flowing so its not that big of deal right now, its just when I go to rejet I think i'm in for a world of hurt. 

Well put it all back together and fired her up, she coughed, spit and backfired for a few seconds then came to life. Here's the kicker #3 was firing just fine right in line with the other cylinders, but #2 was missing, I almost kicked the bike over. I left the garage with her idiling and went to smoke a cigarette, when I came back in there was #2 coming back up to temp slowly but surely. There still is a small hiccup at idle but nothing too major. The hesitation coming off of idle is almost non existent now. Haven't rode it yet ( rain for the next 2 days ) we'll see what happens when I do.

[rider123]

Awsome at least your making progress. Let it sit there idling for at least ten minutes with a rev every once and a while to bring it right up the check the temps and plugs. THey may be a little rich looking as it's just sitting there idling but if they all look the same your good, then just maybe a mixture screw adjustment. THey looked a little rich down low. If everything was kinda off you may have to bite the bullet and do another carb sync but for now just make sure they are all in the same ballpark. Do you remember the pilot jet size? Float height is important if it's wonky it will create problems, now that it's fixed you are probably good to go with maybe a minor adjustment.

[mpatrick]

Pilot is 37.5 and the mains are 102.5. Yeah I have to see if I can borrow the sync tool again.

[rider123]

The number 2 cylinder may have just needed some time to get the fuel back in all the bowls. The real test is riding. As far as those pilots go, that is a bummer. If you're going to do a stage 1 you can probably get away with using the same pilots as stock I am but I'm on a Gen2 bike. If you have to take them out crazily say with some vice grips to unscrew them they will be wrecked. however pilots are only $5 each it's more of a matter of can you get them out then replacing them. Once you start riding around you may have to turn the mixture screws in but I think your good.

If you really had to get them out and you don't care if they die in the process you could get a dremel cutting wheel and cut a flathead groove into the brass but that would be like a total emergency situation.

If you want just do this for syncing:
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=13207.0

It works great!!!

[mpatrick]

Still no ride yet but I let warm up a good bit and shot this video so you can see the progress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVDRiZfE0yg&feature=youtu.be

[rider123]

Sounds alot smoother!!!!! Don't fret too much about the differences in temps as when you standing on that side of the bike the IR sensor will have a harder time picking up the far cylinder. What I do with mine is measure at the front to make sure that it's sort of the same distance but that only would be when fine tuning. Since the float heights were kind of wonky when you synced it will also be a little screwy(you're a little bouncy on the tach at idle) but it's easily fixed and will sync the temps even more(inside temps will be slightly higher). Well I do believe sir you have a fine running Bandit.

You said you shimmed the needles one shim. Did you use the radio shack ones? Because it's sounding alot healthier than mine did stock before I adjusted the mixture screws and popped a shim on it like you. Wait until you pipe and jet it, then the fun really starts!

[mpatrick]

Yeah I used the radioshack shims.

[rider123]

Good job. The radio shack shims are the equivalent of 2 holeshot shims. That will really help in the mid-range alot where the stock jetting is the weakest. You may have to turn the mixture screws in a tad with the shims on there, but it sounds pretty damn good if you ask me. It shows you how important float height is, alot of people skip that step. Including the factory!! Mine were all over the damn place, so no wonder my mixture screws were weird, they were probably trying to compensate for all kinds of weird shit. 1 of my cylinders was like 12mm and another was at 15mm!! A far cry from the stock 13mm.

[mpatrick]

UPDATE:

Well I have been riding it everyday for 4 days now, It does seem a lot better once it warms up. The idle is still pretty bouncy but I haven't resync'd it yet. The last 2 days have been the best it got real smooth at cruising speeds all of the sudden. When idling #2 still seems pretty lean, much higher temps than the rest, I'm hoping a sync will help that. While cruising I do feel a surge in the 3-4k range but that just could be my hand on the throttle. The clutch isn't slipping at all anymore even at full bore redline in 1st and 2nd gear, It is on the other hand getting soft after a while of riding, I'm having to pump the lever at lights to get it in 1st. I don't see any obvious leaks, and I bleed it about 10 times now. I was going to take the sprocket cover off and check the slave again.

I really wish I knew someone with a bandit that I could ride to compare, I have my uncle ride it when I do something to it, but he hasn't had a bandit in 10 yrs, so his memory isn't as fresh.

[rider123]

Top up the hydralic fluid if necessary. If the microscopic bubbles have worked their way out it may need a top up and pump with the top of the master cylinder off to release the air. Just pump it a bit slowly(cover the paint in case) with the top off to let any air out of the system and top it up. As far as the carbs go, you may find at cold winter temps that it's a little lean, but before going crazy on the mixture screws I would do a carb sync first to make sure that all the cylinders are pulling the same then maybe try a 1/4 turn out to richen it up a bit if it's lean at cruise and down low. But before touching anything, make sure your synced otherwise your just wasting your time.

Just do the $5 poor man's sync, it works great and is fast.

Does the first gen bandit have clutch and brake adjustable levers? YOu could just adjust the levers to give yourself a bit more on the clutch lever.

[mpatrick]

Just the brake lever is adjustable. I bleed it again didn't see any air bubbles. I'll just how it goes tomorrow on the way to work.

The poor mans sync was a disaster the last time I tried on my old kz, granted It was a giant piece of shit. But that's what you get when you buy a bike $100.  I am just gonna wait until my boss brings his carbtune in for me to borrow, he keeps forgetting but he's my boss so its hard to be pushy.

On a side note what tires should I get from shinko 005 or 009. Mileage isn't that big of a issue seeing how they are so cheap, but at the same time I have been riding really easy lately because I don't trust the bike yet. So the 009's sound good, more mileage but less grip, but i know me and I will begin to ride that thing its supposed to be ridden so 005's sound good. I'm really confused. I can get either or for within $20 of each other.

[rider123]

What the hell they are so cheap get both. Buy the sport ones in the summer so you can really test them and buy the sport touring ones when you ride the crap out of the sport ones. See which ones suit your fancy. We don't get shinkos up here so we have to buy the expensive ones but my friend owns a bike shop so I get them a dealer cost. I usually throw him $50 so I can use his tyre puller and he gives me a hand getting them on there. The best way is have the sport tires just for summer then for the rest of the year have the sport touring, then by the time they wear out it will be next summer then you can go back to the soft sport compound again.

If you don't feel comfortable with doing the carb sync jihad style then don't do it. They both will get you were you need to go. There is no "right answer".