Author Topic: Being air/oil cooled and stuck in traffic (Read 8554 times)

drewpy_dawg · « **on:** May 26, 2007, 04:17:26 PM »

All,
I'm not to bikes...but aside from my first bike and my ignorance is bliss mentality every bike I've owned since has been water-cooled.
That said...what is the prevailing thought of how long barely moving is ok on a Bandit? I'm sure it is ambient temperature related...
On that thought...has anyone rigged or designed a fan to pull air through the oil cooler??? (buell's even have this...)
Drew

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #1 on:** May 26, 2007, 04:29:12 PM »

I can tell you that when the B12 sits idling for more then 3 minutes after warm up without wind movement, its starts to overheat. I noticed this when Synchronizing the carburetors and not using a portable fan as recommended in the shop manual. Although I never installed a permanent fan I did research the possibility and found out that after market application is mostly used on air cooled quads and that there is an after market application for quads that I am sure can be made to adapt to the B12. If I find the link I will post it.
Frankly I never had a ride situation with my bandit where I needed one even here in the Southwest. When there is heavy traffic, I merely cut the traffic at about 15 MPH.

Red01 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2007, 02:59:08 PM »

FWIW, the Buell fan is there to help provide air to the rear cylinder which is not in free air and packed in there.

I've never been stuck in 100+ traffic with mine, so I can't say how long.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2007, 08:50:42 PM »

Illeagal to "lane-split" in Texas, I'm afraid. Cops would love to bust you for that...and the other drivers would love to have a reason to open their car doors.

I'm going to research the fan option from 4 wheelers...there is room for something there I think...or a "push" fan in front of the oil cooler...

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #4 on:** May 28, 2007, 05:54:33 PM »

If your pretty handy and mechanically inclined you can save a bit by just using the a very small electric radiator fan out of a small car at a salvage yard complete with thermal switch sensor ($10) or just a simple switch to bars where you can turn it off and on manually. Mounting will be tricky though and preferably on the back side of the oil cooler for looks and so as not to impede air flow to the front and draw air through the oil cooler by reversing the polarity on the fan. It really depends on how you use it. If manually you could just leave it on all the time when running, again provided the air flow is front to back regardless of which side it is mounted on..

Quote from: "drewpy_dawg"

Illeagal to "lane-split" in Texas, I'm afraid. Cops would love to bust you for that...and the other drivers would love to have a reason to open their car doors.
I'm going to research the fan option from 4 wheelers...there is room for something there I think...or a "push" fan in front of the oil cooler...

Raphy · « **Reply #5 on:** May 30, 2007, 09:14:59 AM »

I was stuck in traffic for 4 hours on the B650 when i was going to the US for the day... THere was a 5-car pile-up and the entire highway was closed.... this was the long weekend heading towards the US boarder...so you can just imagine...

THe Bandit did well... it was warm out... i tried to shut off the engine once in a while... no issues yet (keeping fingers crossed)... I've been out an a few rides since the 4 hours idling marathon....

P.S. How can you tell the bike is overheating ? Is there an indicator light ? or what do i look for (sorry, i've never owner an air cooled bike before...)

Vlad · « **Reply #6 on:** May 30, 2007, 11:15:29 AM »

An interesting thing happened to me a few weeks ago with regards to overheating. I was stuck in stop and go traffic for about an hour at 25 degrees (Celsius) and I kept watching the oil temp gauge (aftermarket one, replaces the oil cap) slowly but steadily climb from the normal average of 80-90 all the way up to 140. The bike ran fine all the time and I didn't notice any difference in clutch operation. However, when temperature rose over about 120 shifting became noticeably smoother. I was always under the impression that hotter oil gets thinner and therefore shifting should become harder/notchier/stiffer. My only guess would be that Amsoil 10W40 that I'm currently running has some additive that gets activated at higher temperatures...

All in all, there were no ill effects that I could notice. I got a little spooked when the gauge went out of scale (tops at 140) but then I told myself that I would have no idea that the bike is running that hot if I didn't have the gauge and just kept riding. I sincerely doubt bandit can be easily damaged by overheating. After all, those stunters ride them on one wheel at minimum speed and high revs all the time and they endure all that abuse just fine.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #7 on:** May 30, 2007, 11:17:48 AM »

I'd love to know where you got the aftermarket gauge. That would be a great little mod with great peace of mind savings.
-Drew

PaulVS · « **Reply #8 on:** May 30, 2007, 11:28:17 AM »

There was an appreciable drop-off in heat radiating off the engine once I switched to Mobil-1.

Vlad · « **Reply #9 on:** May 30, 2007, 11:28:58 AM »

Quote from: drewpy_dawg

I'd love to know where you got the aftermarket gauge. That would be a great little mod with great peace of mind savings.
-Drew

They show up on eBay every once in a while. It took me a while to hunt it down but that's how I got mine. Plan on spending around $50, including S&H.

reconstyle85 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 01, 2007, 03:57:35 PM »

If you guys are interested there is a member on katriders.com who makes an oil temp sender and gauge kit. It takes the reading at the oil pan, and the gauge can mount to your dash somewhere.

Here's the link to his site:

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/products/electro.html

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #11 on:** June 01, 2007, 09:41:35 PM »

I guess what is suprising is that no one has come up with a fan fix already...I feel like I am a pioneer on an obvious issue 10 years (or more if we count the GSXR heritage) from when the motor was released...
Maybe someone will see this and point a URL my way while I begin working on the issue myself. I DO have access through a friend to a water jet and their mechanical engineering degree for brackets, etc. We'll see...

Vlad · « **Reply #12 on:** June 01, 2007, 11:33:32 PM »

Quote from: "reconstyle85"

If you guys are interested there is a member on katriders.com who makes an oil temp sender and gauge kit. It takes the reading at the oil pan, and the gauge can mount to your dash somewhere.

Here's the link to his site:

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/products/electro.html

Very interesting, thanks! I got what I need for now, but this is worth a look anyway.

pmackie · « **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2007, 10:59:51 PM »

Quote

My only guess would be that Amsoil 10W40 that I'm currently running has some additive that gets activated at higher temperatures...

Shouldn't be anything in the Amzoil that's not in most other engine oils. Engine oils generally DON'T have any special additives for the tranny, as these tend to cause problems in other parts of the engine. But the sliding components in the tranny don't really need anything special to get them to slide.

It's normally the "dogs" on the gears that wear out, due to rounding off of the edges that engage to the next gear. This CAN be assisted with active EP additives, which ARE found in gear oils, but they can't be used in our combined sump engines.

Sorry to put the thread off track.

140 F is not a serious problem for the engine oil, but it is causing a decrease in viscosity. In my experience, the Bandit engines tend to start to run erratically, surging, etc after a long time at idle with minimal air flow. Try to avoid low revs/high torque under these conditions, until you get some airflow going again.

Otherwise, find a different road to ride on, as this sounds terrible for the "rider".

Vlad · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2007, 07:18:43 AM »

Quote from: "pmackie"

140 F is not a serious problem for the engine oil, but it is causing a decrease in viscosity. In my experience, the Bandit engines tend to start to run erratically, surging, etc after a long time at idle with minimal air flow. Try to avoid low revs/high torque under these conditions, until you get some airflow going again.

It was about 185+ F (140+C) and increase in viscosity is what I expected. However, the engine was running just fine and the shifting improved considerably which is inconsistent with oil thinning, IMO. No argument with anything you said, just an honest seat of the pants observation.

Quote from: "pmackie"

Otherwise, find a different road to ride on, as this sounds terrible for the "rider".

Unfortunately, living in a big city stop and go traffic is unavoidable every once in a while, especially if it's illegal to lane split/share, let alone ride on the shoulder :(. Thankfully I get tired sooner than the Bandit most of the time.