Author Topic: Bike was running horribly (am I getting fleeced?) (Read 7679 times)

drewpy_dawg · « **on:** May 14, 2007, 09:48:31 PM »

Post 2...apologies if all the info is elsewhere...
I bought a 2002 1200s model used from someone. He had had it a year and put only a 1000 miles on it (having 3 other bikes makes it hard to choose I suppose...). He changed the oil and that was it.
It had a holeshot exhaust and ran pretty well when it was cold outside (mid-50's both when I tried it out and when I picked it up and it stayed cool for about 3 weeks afterwards). as soon as the temperature got into the 80's the bike started running horribly, especially under 3000 rpm's. I wasn't sure if it was gunky carbs (from 1000 miles in a year) or needing a carb sync or some jetting issue.
I took it to a local shop here in Houston recommended to me by the local v-max owners board and they told me a full tune up should fix things. Ok...300 bucks or so...right?
Well...turns out the bike had been shimmed like crazy...according to the tech there were 7 washers. There were holes drilled in the airbox cover as well. He says (he used to race gsxr's) that this was the cause of my problems. So...it needs a full "real" jetting, right...and he suggested to either replace the airbox cover or go ahead, since I was doing all the other carb work, and buy the pod filters instead of going back to stock. From what I have read this sounds pretty good (who won't take extra HP??).
I guess the real question is...is 761 dollars for parts and labor for a jet kit, pods, new spark plugs (obviously fouled due to the poor running...), etc sound about right?
Does his diagnosis sound right as well?
Andrew

Red01 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2007, 10:02:51 PM »

Figure the Holeshot pod kit is $278 WITH the K&N pods and plugs are a few bucks a piece, he's charging almost $500 to install it... sounds a bit steep to me.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2007, 10:06:00 PM »

They took the carb's apart as well, I think. I'll see what the labour charge is when i get the bike. Hopefully it is itemized..kinda don't have a choice this go-round but I will not go back if it seems excessive.

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2007, 10:20:38 PM »

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2007, 10:37:45 PM »

I'm quite ok doing SOME stuff...things with lots of small parts like Carb's that have to be 100% perfect scare me a tad. I think if I had been at a v-max tech day back in my v-max days and actually had someone stand there and walk me through things once I would be alot closer to being comfortable with that type of thing. Maybe a community college course is the way to go...or in this case I wouldn't have been out much more than I am had I gotten in there and tried to make it work on my own. I wouldn't have known that the modded airbox is good for high rpm power but not for happy running lower in the fuel curve.
Also...had my registration request not been deemed spam I could have asked all my questions before taking the bike in...I know the mod's have a hell of a job...but I don't know what made it look spammy, especially putting specifics about my bikes in my signature???

ZenMan · « **Reply #5 on:** May 15, 2007, 01:04:05 AM »

Quote from: "CWO4GUNNER"

you are at the mercy of the "mechanics trade", many with mail order ASE stamps.

CWO, I notice your cowardly little pokes at me hidden away here and there, especially right after I mention something about myself. Like just the other day when mentioned I was A.S.E. certified, now here you are with this snide little crap.

If you were a real man, you'd call me out. But all you can do is this childish, behind-the-back, side-mouthed bullsh!t. So here I am calling you out on it.

A.S.E. isn't a "stamp", it's a fully frameable diploma officially recorded in The National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence records department. And you can't "mail order" them.

The"mechanics trade" as you call it, is an honorable trade that takes half a lifetime to truly become knowledgeable and experienced in. I'm a Master Mechanic and I'm proud of it, and I won't have you belittling or making thinly-veiled insults towards me or my lifetime profession.

For your information:

"ASE conducts its tests four times a year. Each May and November paper/pencil testing takes place at over 700 testing sites. Professionals register in advance before the exams.

The tests consist of multiple-choice questions developed by knowledgeable people working in the industry, including ASE-certified professionals. The questions are down-to-earth; they cover on-the-job diagnostic and repair procedures. They are not theoretical; they do not cover "book-knowledge." Testing sessions run 4 hours, allowing ample time to complete several exams."

To be a Master Mechanic requires eight certifications. By the time I retired, I had ten. All of these:

Automobile Series
A1: Engine Repair
A2: Automatic Transmission Transaxle
A3: Manual Drive Train and Axles
A4: Suspension and Steering
A5: Brakes
A6: Electrical/Electronic Systems
A7: Heating and Air Conditioning
A8: Engine Performance

And these:

Medium/Heavy Truck Series
T1: Gasoline Engines
T5: Suspension and Steering

There is also a code of ethics to be learned and followed, found here:

http://www.ase.com/Content/NavigationMenu/Service_Professionals1/Getting_Certified/ASE_Certified_Technicians_Code_of_Ethics/Default477.htm

Now if you continue with your disrespectful behavior, you can expect me to be all over you from now on. There's a lot of cracks I could make about you and your profession (ass-kissing squids, the gay image the navy has, etc.) but I don't sink that low, nor am I that immature.

Friendly, good-natured ribbing is fine, but when you cross the line you will be called out. Understand me?

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #6 on:** May 15, 2007, 01:16:06 AM »

ZenMan · « **Reply #7 on:** May 15, 2007, 01:20:36 AM »

Quote from: "CWO4GUNNER"

Hay listen I was just speaking in general terms Didn't mean to hit home you in your career area. Just trying to share a little good advice

Bullsh!t and you know it. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

Back off.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2007, 10:04:12 AM »

How about we stay ON TOPIC?
I asked a question about whether or not I was being fleeced...the general concensus is Yes...would you agree?
I did forget to mention that there is a valve seal b/c the adjusted the valves as well...so figure that into both the total and the labor cost.
You can defend your industry all you want but the general opinion of your industry is what it is for a reason; same as lawyers (which have a set of ethics and a killer test) and other groups that have to deal with more than just a few bad apples. Heck, motorcyclists enjoy a "rep" due to the "squids" out there. You shouldn't be so touchy...you've probably had to fix the mistakes of those bad apples more than once or twice in your career.
Drew

03banditrdr · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2007, 10:43:48 AM »

I dont think your are getting ripped considering the entire job.

ZenMan · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2007, 11:13:08 AM »

Quote from: "drewpy_dawg"

How about we stay ON TOPIC?
I asked a question about whether or not I was being fleeced...the general concensus is Yes...would you agree?
I did forget to mention that there is a valve seal b/c the adjusted the valves as well...so figure that into both the total and the labor cost.
You can defend your industry all you want but the general opinion of your industry is what it is for a reason; same as lawyers (which have a set of ethics and a killer test) and other groups that have to deal with more than just a few bad apples. Heck, motorcyclists enjoy a "rep" due to the "squids" out there. You shouldn't be so touchy...you've probably had to fix the mistakes of those bad apples more than once or twice in your career.
Drew

Drew, the problem with many motorcycle dealers/shops is that there is no standard like ASE for the motorcycle mechanics industry. The good ones hire only proven mechanics or graduates from good schools like MMI. The bad ones could have any Joe Blow working there.

The automotive mechanics industry used to be 100 times worse... ASE is responsible for cleaning it up. Granted, there are bad apples still... but any employer who hires ASE certified technicians is a good bet.

My problem with CWO goes deeper than this topic, but it was his intential dig at ASE "stamps" that I won't tolerate. He inferred that anyone could get a fake ASE certification off the internet and this is simply not true. Cerifications are recorded in the ASE database for any employer to run a check on. A piece of paper is worthless without these records to back them up.

Yeah, there are bad mechanics, just like bad cops. But there are also a hell of a lot of whiney customers out there that are impossible to please no matter how hard you try... people that will scream and bitch and cry over every cent they have to shell out to fix their junk heaps. I get tired of hearing this kind of crap, and the mechanics industry is one of their favorite punching bags.

If you think you're getting ripped off, do like asshat says and learn how to work on your own vehicle. Maybe you'll get a better appreciation for what it takes.

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2007, 11:23:42 AM »

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #12 on:** May 15, 2007, 11:30:10 AM »

Oh no...I rode it quite a bit those three weeks. Was gassing up about once a week over those three weeks and always with good stuff (corporate Shell and Exxon stations). Put a cheapo fuel system cleaner in on the first tank and had a bottle of the good stuff (Chevron Techron Synthetic...) that I didn't get to because the bike kept running worse and worse as the temperature climbed. 70 degree days it was tolerable. When the temp. got into the mid-80's it was almost undrivable in commuting stop and go traffic. That was when I said to heck with it and took it in.

drewpy_dawg · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2007, 11:35:36 AM »

If you think you're getting ripped off, do like asshat says and learn how to work on your own vehicle. Maybe you'll get a better appreciation for what it takes.[/quote]
I don't necessarily think I am getting ripped off. If all the work I'm having done + all the parts = almost $800 bucks then I'm fine with that. I was mostly asking if the diagnosis was correct, if the work performed to rectify the problem was correct and if the parts and labor for the whole job sounded about right.
Again...I'm not afraid to work on a bike...I AM afraid of things that have lots of small parts that have to be EXACTLY right like carb's and jet kits. I've done brake pads, oil changes and replaced/upgraded the clutch on my last bike, a v-max with no issues...its this level of detail that scares me. I know my limits, basically, and figured out where the problem lied on the bike after purchase and knew that I wouldn't be able to properly take care of it; even with a Clymers manual...simply because it was outside of my comfort zone.

ZenMan · « **Reply #14 on:** May 15, 2007, 11:50:08 AM »

No problem, Drew... I understand where you're coming from and I apologize to you for getting off subject in your thread.

It was CWO's purposeful little BS remark that I was addressing... he has a Zen-bug up his butt and does this crap all the time... it goes way back. I'm sick of it so I'm calling him out every time he does it. Hopefully he'll grow up someday.

All I can say about your situation is it's very difficult to diagnose a problem without being there and seeing for myself. Some simpler things can be advised on over the net, but there are many variables and complexities in what you describe... things have been altered and if the slides have been drilled incorrectly or other components have been screwed up then there may be some expensive parts that need to be replaced... that could be why the bill seems so high.

I wish I could be there in person, I'd be glad to help.