Author Topic: Cant stop the fuel at high throttle.  (Read 3755 times)

Offline Benz_020

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Cant stop the fuel at high throttle.
« on: February 21, 2011, 04:24:01 PM »
I cant figure out why no matter what i do i get wayyyy too much fuel at high throttle.

I don't get much time to work on it, but I've been screwing with these damn g2 1200 carbs for almost a year now and no matter the combination or size of main jets i always have too much fuel.
everything from "stock" to way over sized results in nearly the same flow. Way over sized actually resulting in a hair less fuel making it through.

I'm missing something..

No problems anywhere else, floods at all out.

Offline pmackie

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Re: Cant stop the fuel at high throttle.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 01:51:47 PM »
How do you know you are getting too much fuel? Plug readings or an exhaust sensor reading? A little more detail may help.

A couple of things:
The Main jet controls the flow of fuel at throttle opening above approx. 3/4 throttle, ie: once the needle opens enough to have the Main Jet be the jet that is actually limiting the flow.

So...there can be a fair bit of overlap between the needle jet and main jet.

Fuel height in the bowl (float height) can also have an effect, but will usually have some impact at all throttle openings.

One thing that can really cause things to go rich at high rpm's is the Air Filter. Start with a new, stock, air filter ( in a 2nd Gen) and make sure there is nothing obstructing flow into the air box.
Paul
2002-GSF600S, Progressive Fork Springs, B12 Shock,
SS Brake lines, EBC HH pads, Leo Vince Ex & Kappa bags.
Ex Bike Mechanic (late 70's), somewhat rusty
32 years in the Fuel/lubes industry(Retired)

Offline Benz_020

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Re: Cant stop the fuel at high throttle.
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 10:24:32 AM »
3/4+ would be about right where it floods.


Wide-band O2, 10.2-9.8 full throttle with large main, gets worse if downsized, completely floods at full. That's with cover less air-box, k&n square. I can not remember the numbers with pods, stopped messing with them back in Nov.

needles affected everything but full throttle.

This might be pointless, i can barely remember any numbers right now. might have to wait till i get back to FL to get them but,..... i still need to order more jets before i get there. i dont know..

Offline pmackie

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Re: Cant stop the fuel at high throttle.
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 11:53:25 PM »
Hey Benz

It does sound a little weird...the reason I asked about the air filter is Dale Walker (holeshot.com) indicates he had better luck using a stock Suzuki filter in the Gen 2 Airbox...of course, with the whole cover off, things would be different. Here is the comment from Holeshot's website:

"Our extensive testing has found that the original Suzuki air filter element outperforms other high flow units in the new style air box of the 2000+ Bandit 600 and the 2001+ Bandit 1200.
We recommend using only this filter with the Holeshot Performance jet kits. We now have them in stock for our customers."

There are others here on the board that have had mixed results using the K&N Filter on the 2nd Gen 1200 using the factory airbox.

In the interest of trying to narrow down your problem, it might be worth trying a new stock filter.

Do you have other mods done to the bike?

The only other suggestion I have is to check all the diaphrams on the slides carfully, making sure there is no damage, and and that all the o-rings are intact and in good shpe. You want to make sure all the vacuum secondary pistons are operating smoothly.

There has to be a solution...
Paul
2002-GSF600S, Progressive Fork Springs, B12 Shock,
SS Brake lines, EBC HH pads, Leo Vince Ex & Kappa bags.
Ex Bike Mechanic (late 70's), somewhat rusty
32 years in the Fuel/lubes industry(Retired)

Offline rider123

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Re: Cant stop the fuel at high throttle.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 11:14:08 PM »
I had a problem with fuel when my floats were way out from the factory. Would keep getting richer at idle. In fact I had all kinds of problems until they were adjusted properly. Fuel level is very important, you can easily load up the carbs with fuel if the floats are out regardless of main jet size(it wicks up the emulsion tubes) I would take the carbs off and make sure the float height is at 13mm(Actually 13.4 after measuring with digital calipers). I have a G2 as well and once the fuel level was set it was super easy to tune the bike. For your reference I have a 1.5" hole in the top of the airbox, my floats are 13mm my pilots are 17.5's my mixture screws are 4 turns out and I have 110mains with 5 shims on the needles.

I think you might also check to see if your emulsion tubes (The brass thingy the main jet screws into) is not worn and all the jets and tubes are snug. Something tells me some fuel is leaking somewhere as when you have larger main jets you actually have less fuel because the jet size is bigger there is less fuel pressure built up in the float bowl so there will be less leaking wherever it is on your carbs. My guess is the float level is set too low thus overfilling the floats and extra fuel is leaking or wicking out through the emulsion tubes or loose jets.

For fun this is what I would do:

Take the carbs off (no getting around this)
-Make sure the carbs are at 13mm to start. Some of mine from the factory were as low as 11.5! No wonder I had fuel wicking problems!
-Put a stock filter in(I tuned to a K&N too, but it wasn't as good(flat spots) and it was a bitch just to get halfway decent)
-Make sure you have the 1.5" hole in the center of the airbox as per Dale's specs.
-Leave the stock pilots (15 size) in there for now if you have larger ones.
-Put 110 mains in there to start
-Put 5 shims that dale gave you on the needles. If you lost or don't have them you can use the radio shack jobbies but they are about twice as thick so only use 2
-Make sure that the emulsion tube and all the jets are nice and snug. Don't go jihad tightening them they are soft brass, you don't want to kill them.

I had all kinds of problems until I fixed the float height. The asshole dealer who I paid to install the kit didn't do phuck all other than pop the jets in. My floats were all over the place. One, leaking fuel, was at 11.5! Way too low. And another was at 15.5 starving of fuel. There should be a big ass page in Dales instructions.!!!!DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO USE THIS KIT WITHOUT THE FLOAT HEIGHT SET PROPERLY!!!!

My guess is that your float level is so low that the only thing holding back the niagra falls of fuel in your carbs are the needles. Here is how you check the float height with a bad commodore 64 ASCII diagram:

Once you take the carbs off remove the float bowls. You may want to replace those shit brass screws with stainless steel hex bolts (5mm x .8mm x 12mm - Float Bowl)

When you take them off and hold them horizontal it will look like this:


==    ==    ==    ==       <-----Top of the carbs
/  \__/  \__/  \__/  \
\_/    \_/    \_/   \_/


You want to tilt the carbs on the side like this:
 _
/  \I
\_/I    <-----\
I_                \
/  \I               \
\_/I    <-----\   \
I_                Top of Carbs
/  \I    <-----/     /
\_/I                  /
I_                   /
/  \I    <------/
\_/I


Now that you have it on it side you can swing the carbs back and forth and the floats should swing freely and without too much pressure you'll notice that they will stop at a certain point when swung so that the floats are closest to the carb body. You must measure this and make sure that the highest point of the float is 13mm from the carb body, when the float is touching but not compressing against the needle valve. Thats why its a good idea to measure when the carbs are on its side as it will swing freely and not compress the needle valve. If it is too low or too high you have to bend the float tab in or out to adjust the float height. The float tab is the part of that is attached to the floats that actually touch the needle valve. Remember all these parts are delicate and only bend the tab in little adjustments. MAKE SURE THEY SWING FREELY. If not you have a stuck float and that will surely dump fuel.

If you're float height is already at 13mm you might want to bend the tab so the height is 14mm to lean up the carbs a bit. Remember, increasing the float height leans the mixture and decreasing float height riches the mixture. Since you seem to be super rich I'd say lean it(increase float height) IF and ONLY IF you're float height is already at 13mm. My guess is that it is lower than 13mm and thus you have fuel dumping into the carbs but check to make sure.

Once the float height is set pop in a 110 main and a 15 pilot for now with the mixture screws 3.75 turns out from seated(base settings) and make sure the emulsion tubes and main and pilot jets are all screwed tight so there is no leakage of extra fuel past these passages. Remember these parts are soft brass so nice and snug is fine don't go crazy unless you want to buy new carbs. See how the base settings go and if you have trouble just PM me and maybe we can talk on the phone as I have the same Gen bike and have gone through the process.

Since your in Florida which is wet and hot you may need a little leaner than base settings but this is a good place to start.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 12:44:47 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.