Hesitation on hard throttle - & Loud pipes it now seems

[Bazza]

B6Mick:

OK, here is my rebuttal.

Please show me Scientific evidence that loud pipes save lives, because there have been many studies that would disagree with your claim. (You may want to check on all of txbandit's links).

I would suggest strongly that if you thing the only thing keeping you and your family members safe from death on a motorcycle is a pipe, I would suggest that you sell it and use the money to take a motorcycle safety course, which will teach you to never ride in a position in traffic that would put you in harm. This is really what is going to save you the most from being eaten by a cage.

I have been a licensed rider for 36 years, and have crashed twice. One incident was because of too much throttle, the other was because of an Elk. Never has a pipe saved me, because I never ride where a car can get me. 

I can guarentee you one thing.  Your loud pipe would not save me from driving over you, as the last time I was tested, I had approximatly 30% hearing capacity. (My hearing loss was caused by being around loud equipment by the way) Oh, and I can tell you there are MANY drivers with hearing much worse than mine. You can drive and be legally deaf in almost every place in North America. Approximatly 31 million American's are hearing impaired. (That's about 10% of the population, like myself who would probably not hear your bike while inside a car)

Yea, I have had a motorcycle with a performance pipe on it. Like txbanditrydr, I put it on for performance purposes, and yea, I liked the performance. I sold the pipe eventually, and seriously the day I took it off was a happy day. I had grown tired of it.

I had a neighbour that moved in recently who has a bunch of Harley riding friends who think their straight pipe tractors sound cool when they come home at 2:00 AM, and think that all of us in the neighbourhood wishes we were as cool as them. My only hope is that one day, a kid moves in next door to him (or you)  with a very loud stereo, who plays it while you are trying to sleep or enjoy a nice quiet time. You may then understand one day just how much your decision affects others quality of life.

Loud pipes, loud stereos, leaf blowers, only sound good to the people using them. Do enjoy the pipe however, as you are going to find that soon it will be illegal where you live. It won't upset me too much, as I probably would not hear your B-6 anyway. By the way, I hope your use of a loud pipe does not take your hearing to my level. (Any loud noise will make you deaf over time)

Just my 2 cents.

[B6mick]

Ok I shall keep this one short and sweet. No I will not.
The whole reasoning behind lights on, Hi Vis clothing, and learning advanced motorcycle road craft is to do one thing. Yes?
What is that one thing? Too bring attention to ourselves, in order for our fellow road users, to be aware or our proximity, yes? For our safety, yes?
And once again someone quotes “ I don’t like the attention a loud pipe draws” Hmm too draw the attention of your fellow road users, by an audible stimulus, that’s bad, but by drawing attention to yourself by a visual means, is good. Personally I think that’s one of the most hypocritical suggestions that will ever been put forward, in regard to motorcyclist’s safety.

And I’ll say it again, If it saves the single life of one Motorcyclist in the whole world only once a year, then that one rider who goes home that night, to His/Her family. When that’s the same bloody argument to the implementation of such laws as, lights on, helmets, Hi Vis clothing, and staggered licensing. Can you see the hypocrisy there? Cos, sure as shyte, sure as my asshole points to the ground, sure as bears shyte in the woods and sharks shyte in the sea, I can.

 I spend most of my working life on the road, 12 hours a day, day in day out, for years in and years out. As a professional Rider/Driver, I have taken pride myself in being an exceptional motorcycle aware driver, (where most drivers are not, that I’m sure most of you will agree with me) but sure as shyte, quite a few have gone unnoticed visually for a shyte load of reasons, some being my fault as a driver, some by fault of bad rider skills. But time and time again, audible stimuli (loud pipe), has made me aware of a motorcyclists proximity.

This is real day to day experience (as a rider and on the opposite end of the scale as a driver), so believe what you read, or drive a million miles then ride another million odd miles in my shoes, before discounting what I’m saying as bullshyte.

Regardless of what I’m saying, when you’re out and about driving around, next time a bike comes up on your tail, did you hear it first? What about the next one, because I know for a fact one will sneak up on you.
Did you hear it being stoked up, did you then think shyte, he/she is coming past? Wow wee, congratulations sunshine, you’ve just become aware of a motorcyclist by audible stimuli and what he/she was doing (rightly of wrongly) still awareness is a whole lot safer for the motorcyclist than you being oblivious to it, Right? Or better still can you remember just such an occasion? shyte I can.
Can you remember that bloke at the servo who came up to you, and said “hey I sure a shyte didn’t see ya coming up on me, but f*#* me standing I heard ya good”?.
Shyte I can.

Don’t get me wrong I am not going to hang shyte on nobody, for riding with a stock whisper quite pipe, as I have, on many of my bikes for many years. You ride that’s good enough for me. I wont hang shyte on ya for wearing Hi Vis, as I did wear Hi Vis in a industry based trial, on the reduction of motorcycle courier accidents.
But I’m not going to sit here, and let anyone tell me loud pipes don’t save lives, when it is very clear the opposite of this statement is true, come out here in the real world, on the real world roads, in real world traffic, day in day out. Not for the 1 hour trip to the office and the blast back home, come sit in or on my office, where road safety is my life.

[dhcolesj]

Whoa guys.  
The problem here is that I think we're looking at extremes.  My stock pipe is so quiet I can sneak up on people (who are just standing in the parking lot).  That's a little too soft I think.  A friend of mine has a Harley with pipes that are so loud you have to have hearing protection on when he fires it up.  That's WAY too loud, wakes the neighbors and causes anti load pipe legislation. 

My pipe is too quiet his is too load.  What do we need?  middle ground.  I think the bike should make some noise, but not enough to wake people in the next county. 

The question is, do loud pipes actually save lives verses good driving technique, and would not a loud horn that could be used in the moment needed instead not do the same thing?  I think it would.  The reason for that is my horn, as puny as the stock one is, has caught the attention of stupid distracted people on more than one ocassion.  They don't like it that I blew it, but sorry about their luck.  if the morons would pay attention to what they are doing instead of putting on make up, shaving, eating a bowl of cereal (yes I've seen it), reading the news paper, or a book, or texting (which thankfully is now illegal to do while driving a car in TN) I wouldn't have had to blow the horn.

Now, like Bazza my hearing ain't the best (load music in the day, and turbine engines), and inside a nice quality car I couldn't hear your pipes anyway.  But inside my house which doesn't have as much sound proofing, I could hear you, and would be ticked    at 2 AM to be woke up.  So I see the point of keeping the noise down, I have to get up in the morning and go to work.  However, a moderately noisy pipe that may help the average person notice me, isn't a bad thing either.  I really like it when people know I'm on the road with them.  I've really been interested in finding/seeing about a pipe that could be opened up on the highway (be louder for performance), and then closed down on side streets, so I don't wake the neighbors.

So, really loud pipes just tick people off, really soft pipes are too quiet.  The good thing is that there are pipes (I hope) that are not either.  Sound good? 

[Snubnose]

All I know is that the day I put my stock pipe on my bike, my love with my bike became new again...and had made up for almost 3 years of fooling myself (being sold into the myth) into thinking that LP are a good thing yet alone that LPSL! ...I am happy to say, I now have escaped the cult and am enjoying the "de-brainwashing".

I had the Holeshot comp 1 for about 3 years, loved it for about 6 months, liked it for about 1.5 years, and absolutely hated it the remainder of the time. The only reason  the stock pipe didn't end up on my bike sooner, was because I was stupid enough to sell it, so I had to find a replacement and did from my friend Wizzo...Thanks Wizzo! . I never really "liked" the noise so much as simply the 3-5% extra boost it gave me, and that was a questionably, and almost subjective benefit at best!
 
The noise got extremely irritating, especially on long jaunts, and I absolutely hated having to need ear plugs for almost every single ride. I have since gone back to the stock muffler my bike came with. I am now absolutely loving my stock piped bandit, it sounds all "stealthy" like, yet I still hear it and I really don't notice a significant performance drop. I wonder why I ever went for the "loudness" in the first place. I guess, similar to that particular segment of die-hard Harley owners who buy every conceivable Harley crested or embroidered doo-hickey or what-cha-ma-call-it including the HD Ford F-Series truck...nice.  I too got "sold" to some degree. I feel ashamed of that!..oh well..live and learn!

Further to this, LP's, in my opinion, and after some research... do not not save lives, anymore than quiet pipes Kill!. Plus I love the fact that I am now able to actually hear things around me, like other peoples horns, emergency vehicles or people doing stupid things in their cages AND stupid squids on their bikes which gives me the advantage in avoiding them.

After some web searching for stats, Did you know, an apparent 77% of motorcycle accident hazards come from in front of the rider, hmmm!... and only 3% approach from the rear. In fact, Loud pipes draw the most attention to a motorcycle in traffic when the bike is facing away from the motorist. That 77%  statistic of accidents from the front, as most all of us will agree, happens not only by cages just along side and several feet in front of us (where LP's are not really recognized), but, arguably, I would hazard a guess, leans heavily on the side of the infamous "left turn" situation, something loud pipes will understandably do absolutely squat for!

Most Motorcyclists opinions (on the web anyways) admittedly do the LP thing as a mostly a "macho thing" anyway, and love the attention it affords them from bystanders on the street, all the while "acting cool", c'mon, we've all seen em' (if not heard em - excuse the pun) They love the attention from other vehicles at a stop light for example, when "blipping" their throttles!, you know the ones, "look at me!..look at me!" screaming...( I'm 35, yet behave like a 8 year old!). I too, somewhat subscribed to this rationale at first, relatively newish to the bike scene and all! (although felt really dumb doing so).. but no longer fellow Banditeers!...I have become an adult, and I have seen the light, .. and it is quiet, heavenly one!

LP's can be and mostly are a side effect of a vanity matter, not that I'm all against vanity, after all, how much do we all like "tweaking" or dressing up our steeds, polishing?...wax on, wax off, trendy bike gear, bit of chrome etc. etc. If we are honest, we like, and sometimes even love the attention it gives us, after all, it does set us apart from the rest of the masses somewhat, something to be passionate about. Sure, the TLC we give our bikes by "Bling" or "Buff Bonnet" gives us a sense of pride, and so it should!, after all, we are taking care of our machines!..But that's only part of the reason...right guys?

Loud pipes are a fact of street bike motorcycling life, they will stay with us, until they are all made illegal and enforcement of which is fully supported and adhered to....which will happen. Some think they sound nice, and on some bikes, a low, throaty exhaust note does sound good, like the bandit for example. However, even a louder Bandit , used irresponsibly can sound very irritating and remarkably unpleasant for people who hear the exhaust note as "unwanted noise pollution" when trying to relax and/or sleep in the privacy of their own homes, straight piped, baffle free Harleys are not the only culprit! (although they can be the worst). Lets not deceive ourselves into thinking or selling ourselves or others the pitch that we do this for any other reason than to maybe...

• To get noticed by the bystanders/pedestrians around us, or wherever possible, whether or not its the good kind of "attention", we don't care, just as long as it either "impresses" or "pisses them off!".
• Because we personally like the sound, and think it sounds good.
• Boost performance a wee little bit ( not that our beasts really needed the extra power to begin with )

Pipes that are unnecessarily loud or especially very, very noisy pipes in my own opinion are just a way to rationalize extreme self-indulgence. More often than not, those who propose that LPSL are not fooling anybody but themselves, Just like I too was fooled, but I advocated the additional noise justification mostly due to being sold as a necessary component to increased performance!....at least, that what I had told myself. LP's have their place, perhaps, like the track or race day etc. But definitely not your local suburbia where riders hope like hell they get noticed when riding at close to red-line like a-holes weaving in and out of traffic, giving us all a bad rap, not just because of the noise either!.

Really, when you think about it, it is'nt so much the sound of a low, subtle healthy aftermarket exhaust note attached to a bike riding along that is the problem of noise pollution, My wife in fact has a Jardine carbon fibre on her B6 and it sounds quite good, low and throaty, but not loud or annoying. Its the ridiculous people with low-self esteem or penile issues, blipping, revving to stupid levels at corners, during downshifting, at red lights, or when stunting mostly by squids and that certain segment of HD rebels that cause the stereotype, but then again, she is a girl and drives sensibly!

Q: I often wonder why it was exactly Dale Walker manufactured a "Decibel Killer" for his pipes? You do the math.( BTW...I did order this device, but by the time I got it installed, I was still unimpressed, the thing actually vibrated in my pipe, and made a kind of" whistle" between 2-500rpm and did very little for decreased noise )

I did install a louder Horn though, as I was embarrassed by the "toot" the stocker gave!. After installing the stock pipe, I went on a 2000K trip through the Kootenays in B.C recently, and absolutely loved it..I had no issues with anyone trying to run me over or cagers pushing me off the road. The ride was enjoyable and COMFORTABLE!.  I was reminded of how civilized biking can be and absolutely PMSL when a Harley in front of me with straight, unbaffled twin pipes, which had a open diameter of about 6 inches, kept scratching his pipes on the twisties up to Kootenay Bay Ferry!...LOL. Go figure... I was still able to pass him with ease, even without the alleged 3-5% boost in HP!. (Oh, but he made up for his shortfall because he looked so cool in his denim, leather tassels and official HD Bandana when he caught up to us at the ferry)  Strange thing, he was noisy as hell , and almost deafening when I was behind him, but once passing him, and once in front, I hardly heard him..go figure!

This is just my opinion, and personal experience remember, everyone is completely welcome and encouraged to their own, Many will disagree, I'm sure...and passionately so!, and that's good. I guess you could say, I'm sort of the "ex-smoker" of loud pipes, and those are the worst kind!
BTW, I now have had a quiet pipe for over 2 months, and lo and behold I'm still around and alive to say it!..go figure!...Lets see how long this "being alive" thing lasts, I'll let you know if it actually kills me!

LPSL?..no they dont..but then the opposite is also just as ridiculous a blanket statement. Quiet Pipes do not kill or save lives either!.. I think it all comes down to rider attitude, consideration of others - not just yourself, moderation and a willingness to share the road, not just practically, or visually but audibly also. Just because cagers can be inconsiderate, does not give riders the permission to be inconsiderate..2 wrongs never make a right. What we all can do is be prepared, skilled, and aware!

Shiny side up guys!

[Bazza]

I think BMW sort of put things in perspective in a nice way a while ago. 

[Red01]

I love that billboard!!!