Jet kit Problems? Yes or No

[coolguycentral]

I first started with a dynojet stage one kit, couldnt get it dialed in with my D&D race slip-on. Then started buying larger mains and pilots at my local bike shop. Still no luck. Then purchased and installed the holeshot stage 2 kit, with an airbox retainer  frame for the k&n panel filter in the airbox. ( at the same time added the holeshot ignition advancer). Getting closer but no cigar. Finally got the k&n pod filters, followed the exact instructions for the stage 2 holeshot kit, which put almost there. I ended up with the mains at 147.5, i really cant recall the size pilot but I know it was larger than what came in the stage 2 kit. I wanna say a 30. It's tuned right on now. I would try a larger pilot, then figure out your needle, then onto your screws.

I was really surprised with the difference in performance i got, when switching from the modified airbox to the pod filters, with almost the exact settings.

[zortan]

Interesting, so you have a stage 2 holeshot in a 2002 B12, so like me but you install the pod filters and you find the bike working better. I Will try !

Pilot jet if you have a 2002 B12 should be 15 (stock) or 17,5 (the dale's one).

Do you remember your pilot screw setting ?

EDIT: i noted that my problem is EXACTLY described in this thread:

http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=3696.0

funny that in my 2003 bandit the pilot screws were not closed by steel so i do not have to drill anithing, and the problem should be present only with the OEM bike and not with the modified stage 2 bike with the pilot jet to 17,5 !! really i dont understand. My oem bike in off-ildle conditions was really excellent.

[zortan]

i just order from dale the upgrade from stage 2 airbox to stage 2 with pods.
The pilot jet is the same.
maybe the difference is in the float bowl height.
I will mount all and let you know my impression. The pod filters that i will mount are not the classic RU-2922 from K&N but the RU-4720 because of i get it at very low price here. This filter has much filtering area than the 2922, it fits the MK2 bandit but it ends really near from the chassis, i'm sure that won't fit the MK1.

[locky]

I've only used Dale's kit but it's more a bike to bike thing.Ive had 3 GSFs and tuned all 3 with Dale kits only had tuning problems on the one I have now,called Dale he told me to replace the emulsion tubes I did and now no problems to the tune of 120.2 at the rear wheel.When it comes to Bandits in North America Dale's the man....

[rider123]

I had a few problems with Dales recommended settings but every bike is different. With the suggested 17.5 pilots it was rich as hell down low and cruise and lean up top with the 110's. What I would suggest he recommend is ONLY change the pilots once you go past the 4.25-4.5 mark, then turn the screws in 1 and 1/2 turns and pop in the richer pilots. I've put the stock pilots in there and have them at 4 turns out for now while it's winter and have the 112.5 jets in there. I'm going to go up to 115 or 117.5's so I can use the K&N filter. With the 112.5 and 4 turns out with the K&N it's just a little too lean up top. With the stock filter it's fine but probably when it's summer I'll put the turns to 3.75 If I use the stocker. I like the K&N filter better as it breaths better and is reusable.

 I'll wait until spring as I've been riding and testing in 4 and 5 degree Celsius so I'm a little lean when it's so cold.

A few replies back there was a link to years ago my problems with the mixture screws. Out of the factory the screws were all over the damn place. One carb was on 2 turns out and another at 3 1/2!! WTF?! I set them all to the standard 3 turns and immediately it was smoother off idle but still weak. I ended up at 3 1/4 and a radio shack shim when summer time came around. Thinking back on it now I think alot of it was poor dealer setup. I got an extremely good price but had to buy it from a Suzuki car/bike dealer which concentrated on cars more. They should stick to cars. As I said in my letter though I fixed it myself but if it was someone's first bike or they couldn't turn a screw they would have been very disappointed. I would have paid extra to have the euro model with the adjustable needles and open pilot screws.

[zortan]

Ok, i will reply in this topic because of is more appropriate, so... first of all my bike is a 2005 EU model (dont have to drill nothing), i write from ITA sorry 4 my written english.
second, i buy the stage 2 holeshot and install it
third, bike was never working good with any combinations.
This is what i do:

I cut the diaphram spring by 25mm, keeping the cuitted part upside
I install the new holeshot needles (4th groove from top with shim)
i istall the slow jet 17,5, (but the bike was rich as hell, so i come back to 15 at 3,5 turns out)
i install 147,5 main
I put pod filter
i check float bowls (i got the specific gauge)
I remove plastic tube between 1-2 and 3-4 carb
install timing advancer
check float bowl leve. 13mm
check petcock and fuel flow OK
check for clean carbs and all tubes-etc... clean and free.

After frustrating myself a lot this evening i remove two diaphram with the holeshot needle, in one of this i replace the OEM needle, and i compare it.
The holeshot needle looks loosen, it moves so much, it does NOT compress enough the little spring under it, just you touch with fingers the needle it goes up by 0.5mm and then it begin to compress the spring really.
The difference are two: 1- the outer diameter of oem needle, in the point it pass the plastic hole of the diaphram is nearly the same driving it more straight, 2-the spring is 4mm more compressed.
I see in other kits that this little spring is provided.
So instead of coming back to stage 1 i will try to find more long springs or put some sort of spacer in between the cap and needle to make this needle feels like OEM.

this is really the last chance. after that goodbye...

[BanditAllan]

Has anyone used a Dynojet kit???  I didn't see any comments about it.

[rider123]

Dynojet kits work great on Gen 1 bikes but Gen 2 and 3 they are shit on a stick. I would shy away from them like the plague if you have a 2001+ Bandit 1200. One guy sold his bike over it so if you want to gamble and pray to the dark gods in your basement that you can tune it go for it. Don't say we didn't warn you!. Look if you're broke just do this:

cut a 1.5 inch hole in the airbox lid
pop in some 110 mains
shim the needle .020 to .040 inches with some shims from radio shack
drill out the mixture screws and turn out to 3.45 turns out. This should get you close. I had to go to 17.5 pilots which is one up and I'm at 2.75 turns out with the larger pilots if you use them.

Best bet is to buy a Holeshot or an Ivan's as they have done all the work for you and can help you if you go tits up. Good luck.

[BanditAllan]

Sorry for the lack of asking which year, I was referring to the MK1 Bandits.

For my intake mods I removed each carb and spun polished the carb bellmouths in my lathe.
I fitted the Dyno jet stage one kit, mains, shims and springs.
I then upped the pilots to #40 from #37.5, this is so I could dial back the mixture screws a bit, I prefer closer to three turns out.
I then modified my airbox cover, but I did it in a different way to the norm. I began with a stock carb bellmout/airbox rubber, I cut and ground off the section that originally mounted to the carb clamp section so its now flush to the flange slot that goes around the airbox hole. Then I upsized the hole in the cover to fit this larger inlet rubber, now with this alternative part it fits in just like the oem piece except theres no snorkel inside the cover and its still got the velocity stack shape on the outside.

[rider123]

Yeah dynojets work great for the Gen 1, you should have no problem.

[zortan]

Just for reply... i remove the entire holeshot kit, i buyed a set of brand new OEM springs from a suzuki dealer (the OEM was cutted because of the kit) and i buyed a factory pro kit.

Now the bike with 4 pod filters works GREAT. and stop.

The needles are maded really with a different shape with respect the holeshot one.

And cutting spring is a mistake on 2001+ models ALSO if you put the holeshot kit, that actually has a "row" calibration with respect the factory pro, that is really better for the all day drive.

However, final setting is:

4 Pod filters
stage 3 needles factory pro 3rd notch from top
main jet 150
pilot jet i think more bigger than oem but cannot remember now (oem should be 15, holeshot 17.5, but with the factory pro it comes a really bigger one, probably 22 or 27, really cannot remember now)

[China Greg]

I actually know Ivan quite well... we live in the same area and i knew him back when he was a simple mechanic in local shops.

Anyway, I've used his jet kit on my 1st Gen B12 for a long time. In fact, that same kit (needles, really) has been on BOTH of my B12's.

So recently I began to sense some odd surging and other signs of richness... made some adjustments here and there and finally went to Ivan. At 140,000 miles, maybe my needles were worn out.

"THEY'RE STAINLESS STEEL!" he blurted. "You'll probably NEVE wear them out!" (Understand that Ivan has ..people issues.. he is a brilliant tuner but otherwise considers the Human Race to be a great failure in general).

I says, "Ivan.. if you rub a piece of steel against a WASHCLOTH long enough, it will erode the metal!"
He makes this exasperated face. "Okay! Go home and look at the upper shaft on the needles! If you see any notches... I'll have to make you a new set!" (I have one of his first prototypes, the only set in existence, and they work GREAT .. bike is crisp as hell right off of idle).

So i went home and pulled the carb tops off.... sure enough: NOTCHES. They're shot.
So now I have to wait until MAY for my configuration needles, because he only makes needle orders to his lathe guy once every five or six months.
In the meantime I have to use his second design... the one normally available for sale from him.

Crazy coot, that boy... and the local bike guys here all dread dealing with him face-to-face...
But he sure makes some good tuning equipment.

[captnhooks]

Playing with a local guys jet kit here in Phoenix as we speak, 6Sigma racing, ordered a 1-3 combo on a set of brand new carbs. his kit stage 1 is 105 mains with 37.5 pilots, and a metric arss ton of shims for $90 seems a bit on the high side for my taste, I could have just ordered mains and bought shims for about $25 had I known this. But "trying to support local" but it ran great with stock box and a flat panel K&N on a removed snorkel.

Stage 3 consists of 135 mains and a bleed through 37.5 pilot and a again with the arss ton of shims since its the same kit. says to set the floats to 11 to 11.5mm on the floats, and 2 turns on the pilots screws lobbing off one ring on the diaphragm springs for crisp response, and shim the needles one thick nylon and one silver washer along with the stock shims (on the baseball bat size needles) and i bought brand new RU2922 K&N pod filters

I Am smashing my head against the wall  trying to get these dialed, shims way up (2 washers along with the above mentioned) turned way out (3.5) this thing still runs super lean stumbles off 3k pulls the front tire off the ground once it hits 5k and then surges like crazy, who knows to what rpm cause lets face it im now having a freaking heart attack from looking at the moon for the last 3 seconds from the sudden power surge. Poor lady walking her dog probably left a pile right there on the side walk and so did the dog, cause she thought I was shooting at her from the lean pop. UGH I Came home changed my pants and my socks, (Taco bell night) pulled the filters and placed tape on the bottom of the carbs to block off some air, and took it for a very easy on the throttle ride around the block,  once in 3rd gear I grabbed a fist full and DAMN, she pulled hard all the way up. so there lies the problem, LEAN

Ive been dealing with this beast for about a week now, Im headed to his place TODAY to have a face to face since it takes 3 days to get a response via email and he wont answer is gawd damn phone.  I'm pretty sure a 150 main is needed. I Just hope he is a people person cause I don't do well with ignorant clowns, as I've been a bouncer for many many years!! I just cant wrap my head around the price of this guys kit. I should have just gone with A dale or Ivan Kit and called it a day of turning wrenches on my own MK1 B12, but NOOOOOO I had to keep it to the little guys and be a mechanic( btw I am a mechanic and custom painter/ detailer) Captn Hook's Paint & Rescue LLC

[China Greg]

In the past I  F****d around with a K&N jet kit.. then a Factory kit.. Pod filters and tried various configs... always came up with flat spots and surges and spitting.

When I put a 1216cc JE piston kit in..  my "expert" race mechanic pal commanded me to put huge (140 +/-) Main jets in, with big pilots... we tried degreeing the cams.. using K&N filters... all sorts of stuff... I must have had those carbs off fifty times...wore out the intake boots.

Finally in exasperation I went to Ivan with my tail between my legs.
He barked at me to follow the instructions on his kit:

STOCK cams
STOCK cam sprockets
STOCK pilots (37.5)
STOCK Mains (117.5, I think)
13mm float height
drill (21) 1/2'' holes in the back of the STOCK air filter cover
Ivan needles (i actually have a set of prototypes no one else has, but they're very close to his normal ones)

Bingo. For most of 100,000 miles now the bike runs crisp as hell right from Idle on up to wide-open throttle.. not a flat-spot or surge anywhere. I can let the clutch out at a light AT IDLE and roll it on hard, and the front ends will smoothly start climbing, with no sputtering or complaints anywhere.

Now, i expect that I might be able to gain a few measly ponies by fooling around and Supersizing the Main jets... but that's surely going to create problems elsewhere along the curve.
I'm NOT riding a drag bike.. I use my B12 for everything from commuting to trackdays to cross-country touring; with the piston kit, a jet kit, a Yosh RS3 end can and a little light port work, I make 120 hp and 83 lbs of torque on the dyno. Those numbers make me very, very happy, and as i say, the thing is crystal smooth across the range... much more satisfying than "Big Horsepower" would ever give me... (and remember that 120 hp is up at least twenty % from stock.. that ain't chicken scratch). I went UP one tooth on the front sprocket, to give me a better highway cruise, and the bike STILL does off-the wrist wheelies. Oh yeah, and I get 33 mpg. Try THAT with your larger Pilots and Mains.

If you need more power than that, you're looking at fairly radical setups, which will eventually exclude your bike from ever being smooth across the board. If you're only riding out on the Boulevard to stunt around with your buds.. who cares? Put some giant mains in it run it wide open...who cares if it sputters down low.

But mine is used for all sorts of road use, and does it all brilliantly (epsecially with aftermarket suspension front and rear).

These bikes are quite finicky with fueling, (mine will NOT run well with any air filter except the stock one, for example), and if you want Big you're liable to have it run good Here OR There... but not both!

PS... the one change i tried that actually worked well was the addition of a 1992 GSXR750 intake cam. It really DID boost my top-end performance. But in the end I prefered the Curve from my old stock cam, and I swapped it back... which turned out to be much more practical for my Do It All riding needs.
.
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[captnhooks]

I Tour all over Arizona, and the Northwest. Im Looking for clean, im looking for mileage but I sure as fook aint looking for the headache of putting those stupid arss designed airbox back on that bike!! I put the small kit on with the stock filter and box, it still ran smooth but man it was a slug with the 16  front. So I went to the pods, Ive had fantastic luck with them here in Phoenix. Hell we got my 86 gsxr running like a champ on the 4 individual filters. But this kit is driving me batty. And yes we have had these off the bike so much I just ordered another set of boots. Its so hard to judge how a kit will run from state to to state or even city to city inside the same state.

All that being said im gonna have to buy anothe r damn set of jets from one of the two guys that know how to build them, cause this company is being a pain, he finally got back to me and said i gave him the wrong year, and swears my bike is an 01.... title says is a 2000 frame says its a 2000, has the bod work of a 97-00 so clearly it HAS TO BE A 2000 B12S. ugh lol