2000 1200S Clutch problems, carb problems, etc.

[mpatrick]

still experimenting, been noticing some surging at tiny throttle openings like 1/8th opening. Turned the pilots out a touch we'll see how that goes. Added another hole, it was seeming like it's a little wet at full throttle. I still have a fair amount of burbling through the exhaust when I shut the throttle. This post is a little rambly but you get the idea right?

[mpatrick]

Sorry about that last post I was completely drained from the day, I just felt like I should give an update.
I got some pictures for you Its just 1 and 4 as they are the easiest to get to(no one will notice that I'm not actually working).
The base rings seem to be cleaning up nicely, they were much worse a few days ago. Inside around the ceramic still seems pretty dark to me, I guess I might need another hole.
Well anyways here's some pics.


#1


#4 there is a flashlight shining on this one.

[rider123]

They are looking alot better. More holes McDuff!!   If you go one hole too many just tape it up, count em out get another lid and make it look pretty. I'd say you're pretty damn close. What are your settings at this point? I can tell your mixture screws are dead on. Need a little more air for the mains. Timing looks good as well.

[mpatrick]

Well after a little poke from rider123, I'll give yall an update. I didn't want to bother everyone with my little tuning nightmare, its been one step forward two step back kinda of a deal.

As of today the bike is running pretty well, I have 16 3/8's holes in the airbox with the snorkel in. 127.5 mains and 35 pilots 4ish turns out. The bike pulls hard at 5k and above, the low end still feels pretty sluggish, like its rich but when when I turn the pilots in the lean surge becomes unbearable. It is totally rideable ( only put 15 miles on my truck in the past 3 weeks ), I can easily ride outside of the bad range, but I would really like to have everything perfect or as close as I can get. I did add a spacer at the top of the slide spring to make it a little stiffer and that helped smooth out the sudden lean spot when giving it a handful, its still not gone but its less noticeable. I have tried a more and less shims on the needles and nothing seems to make it any better, except 3 shims but then I get about 20mpg. I am only getting about 32mpg right now which is fine with me. After a week or so riding at the settings I have now I resync'd the carbs and they were way off again, smoothed out again after the sync.

Rideablity is my main goal of course but I do have the more power bug now, the bike just doesn't scare me nearly as much as it used to. Freeway riding is fine as long as your above 4k. Traffic is terrible, 1st and 2nd gear are super jerky, just cant find a happy spot in those gears. I am really tempted to get a wideband so I can really tell exactly what is going on during certain riding conditions. I don't think i'm going to get much better than it is right now with out buying a kit, so i get better needles, I have a feeling that's where most of my problem lies. I am gonna have to ride it as is for a while, I cant spend anymore money on it for a while. Sometimes I wish I could just ignore the problems like most people do. Overall though I am pretty thrilled with this bike, I don't want to sound like i'm bashing it, I still enjoy riding everyday that I can. 

[rider123]

Sounds like the the pilots are a little weak. If it's "jerky" at small throttle settings it's generally the pilots are a little weak. Do you still have the stock 37.5's kicking around? It might be worth to pop them in give them a shot it would definately smooth things out down low. The reason it smooths out alot when going with a crazy amount of shims(3!) is your dumping so much from the mains that it's compensating for the lean pilots so even if you had the leanest pilots in the universe it still would smooth things out.

The best thing you could try is pop the larger pilots in there, it will be 1 1/2 turns less than you have now to be at the same level. Maybe even reduce a shim on the needles and see how it goes. If you're pulling awsome past 5K your mainjets and probably your needles are fine. Once you pop in the larger pilots you may need to take a shim off but that's about it. Since it's a very easy job it might be worth a try.

So say you have you mixture screws right now at 4 turns out. If you pop in the 37.5's you should start around 2 1/2 turns out and work up from there. Go back down to 2 shims if you are on 3 and see how it goes. You may end up with only 1 shim on there with the richer pilots. If you have lean pilots but crazy rich needle settings then it will go from super lean to super rich and things get a little wonky. What you want to do is spread the fuel delivery a little more evenly between the pilots and mains. You may be pulling too much fuel with the shims at 2(hence it driving better with a spring shim) to compensate for the lean pilots. So if you up the pilots, you may not need to pull so much on the needle to get good power and can go to 1 shim without the spring shim in there.

[mpatrick]

If I can get the other things done that I need to tomorrow I'm gonna throw in the larger pilots and see how it plays out. I did do a test the other day were I took the baffle out of the muffler to compare, I will say it does seem to run better without it, It could just be mental though.

[rider123]

Well it should breath alot better without the baffle. In fact if you put the larger pilots in I would recommend tuning it with the baffle out for max power. You'll thank yourself later. Just looking at the plugs tells me your close but a bit light on the pilots(a bit too white close to the tips). Give them a try with the baffle out I'm sure it will be perfect.

[mpatrick]

Well, after a good talk with rider on the phone I have made some progress. Put in the 37.5's and rode if for a couple of days, the midrange seemed a little mushy. So I pulled the spring spacers I made off, didn't really feel much a difference there, so I pulled one shim off and that seemed to help a lot. The transition from pilots to needles is a little lean now I feel. I was going to turn out the mixture screws another 1/4 turn to see if that clears that up.

I did re-sync the carbs after the pilots got changed, but my idle is still pretty messed up, not steady at all. I think that my carbs hate stock pilot jets, Its about the same as it was in the beginning, little dips sitting at lights. It is almost like I have a vacuum leak, but I cant find one.

[rider123]

After you get it running well generally, what you can do is go for a longish ride then go park it at home on the centre stand, let it idle there for a min or so once warm, then take a look at the plugs, it could be that one of your cylinders needs a slight turn out or in on the mixture screws, ie my number 3 cylinder is slightly leaner than the rest so a quick 1/12th of a turn out brought it in line with the other cylinders.

[mpatrick]

you think the 15 mile ride home from work is enough?

[rider123]

Easily, depending on the temps a put around for 15 mins should be enough to warm it up enough to check. To be safe a half an hour is better.

[mpatrick]

well I pulled the plugs and 2,3,and 4 all looked a touch lean, so i just barely turned them out. I also re-sync'd the carbs again. I took a good long while doing it this time, the idle is almost dead smooth, almost. I am fine with it now. There seems to be a slight lean spot in the transition to the needles but its not bad at all. I think I will just tape a hole up and that shoud fix it.

This topic has come full circle now though because I have clutch problems again, but its from the power now, I slipped the clutch a couple of times in 3rd when I hit redline. 

I am gonna say that this case is closed....for now at least, I know I will be doing stage 2 sooner or later.

[RobRz]

sorry to interrupt,

rider I am having tuning issues also, was going to buy a gunson colourtune? any good?

Rob

[rider123]

I've never used one because I'm a cheap bastard I just rode around at the throttle level I needed to test and look at the plugs. However I'm assuming a colourtune would make it easier then hell and probably a hell of a lot more accurate then the eyeball method. Buy one and tell us how it goes.

From what I gather you're supposed to make the idle mixture a nice  bunsen burner blue. However making the idle mixture "perfect" may lean it out once going above idle.. Maybe make it "perfect" to test then turn out the screws an 1/8th and see if you get more power. Slightly rich may be better, just make them all the same. Also sync will affect it as well.

I recently unitized the mixtures on my bike after I got them at a excellent baseline.

For example:

number 1 cylinder: 3.5
number 2 cylinder: 3.75 on the nose
number 3 cylinder: a hair over 3.75 turns
number 4 cylinder: 3.75 on the nose.

As you can see they are slightly different but they are all within a 1/4 turn of each other. I'm getting a little perfectionist but with a colourtune it makes it even easier. Maybe start a new thread and invite by PM to it and I'll try and help you out. Mpatrick had crazy tuning issues but we were able to help him out. I've been away for a while sorry.