Author Topic: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit  (Read 56005 times)

Offline deanozx10r

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 66
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2011, 02:32:11 PM »
Damit its 50* here and it way to windy I want to ride!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

Offline Octane

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2011, 06:50:19 PM »
I cannot complain about the poor mans stage 1 kit.
Last night my best run was 11.7 seconds for the 400m. I must have weighed 110kg suited up in full leathers.
Felt heavy. Tried shifting at 10,000rpm for some runs and shifting at 8,500rpm on others.
The later I shifted the higher the trap speed but the ET was slower. The earlier I shifted the trap speed was slower but the ET was faster. NFI why. Next thing to test is the advancer with 95 octane fuel and see what that does.

A few hours before the race I went out to get some new plugs. Noone had the NGK JR9B plugs but I found the Denso equivalent. Strange looking plug with two ground electrodes. Will pull them out and post up pics.
2006 B12 112.5 Mains, adjustable needles (full rich), std pilots 3.75 turns out, K&N, airbox 1.5" mod, Staintune exh.

Offline rider123

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2011, 11:32:32 PM »
Good runs! How did the plugs look after with some decent runs under it's belt? What was top speed with times? I think I've seen that most people with a stage1 gets around a 11-11.5 trap time but who knows what they weigh, etc. Maybe that's Herbie Valachez from Fantasy Island?(tattoo) I don't know. I'm sure the pro riders can get better but you're in the ballpark. I think the trap times that Suzuki posts stock is with the tiniest Japanese pro rider they can find to massage the numbers so the bike can have a "happy finish"(no pun intended) :grin:.

MCN's best time stock was 11.3 but if you're weighing an extra 40 kgs over the tiny rider on there you obviously have way more than the stock 100hp as your almost the same with their pro rider. For fun you might want to get the bike dyno'd. If they are doing an A/F map just disable the PAIR bullshit by clamping the PAIR airfeed hose on the right hand side of the bike. There is a hose coming out of the bottom of the airbox that feeds under the carbs and up to the PAIR box. Just clamp it temporarily on the DYNO so it won't screw up the A/F map sensor. Otherwise it will say its crazily lean when it's not. I'm planning to get rid of mine this winter if I have to make block off plates with paper mache.

Found another 1/4 mile time

11.54sec@129mph

Stock with pro rider(magazine)

But don't look at the numbers too much as %95 of a good 1/4 mile time is the launch and the rider. What your trying to do is get an average baseline so if you hop up or tune the engine you can see tangible results. So for you with your weight, power setup, the moons and star alignment, etc. is around a mid to high 11 second 1/4 mile which is damn good because your only 10ths off from PRO riders who are lighter than you. So now if you tune and get either better trap top speeds and/or less trap times you know you're going in the right direction. I would say with the power on your bike higher than stock the power/weight ratio is probably pretty close to those magazine pro riders so really your only a few 10ths off what the pro's can do. So now say you go to pods and a stage 2 with full system, if the 1/4 mile times are shaved or your top speeds increase well your almost guaranteed that you have more power. As you practice your times will shave as well. %80 of a good 1/4 mile is the launch. Thats where the torque of the Bandit comes in handy. If you have a 1000 hp bike and you're launch is shit you'll still lose. With practice you might be able to shave off up to a half a second.

For me if I was going to the track for a PINKS like race I might go on a crash diet/liposuction and wear speedos and a tinfoil helmet for gear!  :grin: Anything to reduce weight. I believe most carb tuners I've read said to try and get better ET than top speed but don't quote me. For me I would shift just a touch past Top HP which would be around 9000-9500 so the next gear would be deep in the powerband. After 8500 the power starts dropping off but due to the relative width of the 5 speed as opposed to the 6 speed it's best to go slightly past top HP RPM. Try it and see if it helps. Of course if you have GSXR cams you can go right up to just short of redline.

To give you an example of Rider over HP. I read on a forum that a guy on a stock GSXR750 got a 10.98 quarter mile time. But his friend needed a Huyabusa (+60 HP) to get a 11.5 quarter mile time. So if you're getting the same time as a guy on a Huyabusa with way more HP you're obviously doing well. Just don't tell your wife if you get a "happy finish" at the track she may misunderstand  :grin:.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 01:43:46 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Octane

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2011, 02:25:10 AM »
Put a test pilot on my bike and 5 litres of fuel (I was running with at least 10 litres) and I reckon you'll see the low end of 11's.
My worst run was 12.1 I think. Had a terrible start on that one with the front wheel coming up and my shitting myself didn't help.

No hint of lean out on any run. Pulled hard all the way to around 9,000 I think then you could feel it was just noise after that.
A spectator who I had been chatting to earlier in the evening came up to me to say how good the Bandit sounded at full noise.
He said it was a real crisp sound - really howling. :trustme:

The Denso plugs... well after 200km of riding and 5 passes at the drags having the absolute thrashing of its life, the plugs look like they did when I installed them. The only hint of use is the ground electrodes have changed colour from the bright nickle colour to that heated metal colours (gold/purple). This is only on the tips.
2006 B12 112.5 Mains, adjustable needles (full rich), std pilots 3.75 turns out, K&N, airbox 1.5" mod, Staintune exh.

Offline rider123

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2011, 03:11:57 AM »
Nice! that's the key is to try and keep the front end down. If the front end comes up your losing acceleration as any potential energy is wasted lifting the front end up. Pretty good for $10 bucks worth of jets an a few hours eh? Thats why I love these bikes anyone can make them scream. What are your settings? Ie turns out, pilots, needles, mainjets. Maybe we should start sort of a "tuning book" with suggested settings for new comers. I love to see that bike on a dyno to see the HP and A/F mapping. I'm seriously considering going back to the 112.5's and trying the new K&N panel filter that I've used maybe twice, it's so lonely in the box! Might be worth it to you to order the advancer, that will help at low rpm to get the power on quicker, you may even shave a few 10th's off the time. Since the K&N does breath better I'm sure your peak power maybe up around 9000 instead of 8500, a Dyno will tell you for sure, just make sure the stupid PAIR bullshit air feed hose is clamped so it doesn't mess up any A/F readings.

Can I have my jets back?!!! :stickpoke: J/K have a spare set in storage ready for spring.

Although I know 100% I'm rich, plugs confirm it. So I may for fun just try the K&N without the 112.5's. As you can see I have 17.5's in there so it's already 2.5 CC's overall richer(same as 112.5's and 15's), problem is it's on the wrong end at the bottom. For me to get max wheelie power I have to turn my mixture screws in to 2.25 which I know is too lean because if I blip the throttle it hangs up then comes down. For me to get perfect Idle I have to turn them to 2.75, I compromised with 2.5 for now(still a little lean pilots, but overall too rich). However once they are there at 2.75 the throttle turns to mush(too rich) and the base ring is blackish. Even at 2.25 there is still bits of soot on the base rings instead of fooling around with enlarging holes, etc it might be ok with the K&N and just turning out the mixture screws to perfect idle(might end up at 3 turns). Since I'm pumping out more fuel anyway it might just even it out. It can't hurt and is easy to put back if it doesn't work out. If it drives better but not perfect then at least it's only an hour to pop in the 112.5's again.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 03:49:28 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Octane

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2011, 04:59:06 AM »
My settings I used to achieve the 11.7 qtr mile...
112.5 Main jets
Needles (adjustable type) 5th groove from top (full rich)
Pilots - standard
Pilot screws 3.75 turns out
91 Octane pump fuel
K&N panel filter
Air box 1.5" hole at top - leave snorkle in
New spark plugs
TPS set to factory specification
Valves were reset only 1,000km ago along with throttle balance

That's it.
2006 B12 112.5 Mains, adjustable needles (full rich), std pilots 3.75 turns out, K&N, airbox 1.5" mod, Staintune exh.

Offline rider123

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2011, 10:17:32 AM »
Nice. I imagine after turning the screws in from 4.25 I bet you your plugs have cleaned right up. If you're just getting light colouring after 200K kms and a few trapshoots it's probably spot on. Maybe down the road as they colour you could post for people. Good job! I plan to go to that dyno guy in the spring for fun. If I can post it I will however it's snowing outside and I forgot my snow tires so it will have to wait. Its great you just created a stage 1+ for us. I imagine you're probably getting a few ponies more than the standard stage 1.

Hey my posts are at 667! I'm the neighbor of the beast! I wonder if he'll lend me his rachet set?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 10:36:17 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Octane

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2011, 04:23:05 PM »
Here's an idea - setting the pilots are a real PITA. How about something unlike the idle speed control knob thing, one for each pilot screw that you can actually get your fingers on. Each quarter of the thumb screw is marked with a different colour stripe on the edge to indicate what setting you are at. That way as a tuning aid, it makes the chore of getting a screw driver bit up in there without burning yourself or missing the slot altogeather but thinking you have it and twiddling away - (hmmm sound like a familiar scenario  :trustme:?)  :rofl:

Also the 3.75 turns specification is quite happy anywhere between 4 and 3.75. Inspect your plugs and tune from there. Would also depend on your altitude I guess. I'm basically at sea level. I'd like to see just a hint of carbon on the plugs.
2006 B12 112.5 Mains, adjustable needles (full rich), std pilots 3.75 turns out, K&N, airbox 1.5" mod, Staintune exh.

Offline rider123

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2011, 05:34:15 PM »
Oh it will carbon up don't worry, just need some more miles. You can get a mixture adjusting tool but it's like $100 for a good one. I'd rather just use a screwdriver bit because once it's good you never have to touch it. This one is $60 but it's not as nice as the other one I saw. From looking at your old plugs at 4.25 I'm sure 3.75 is perfect. Because I drive from 2 to 35 degrees Celsius I will have to theoretically adjust them more than you where I doubt the temps drop to less than 20 degrees Celsius. The fact that it is carboning up slowly is proof you're running cleanly.

This may keep the burning to a minimum, $60 from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Mixture-Carburetor-Adjusting-Degree/dp/B004N0KHAQ

Heres a super Ghetto model $20:
http://www.amazon.com/POSSE-PILOT-SCREW-ADJUSTING-MOTORCYCLE/dp/B004N0FMJ2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_2

Because you're lucky and live where the mean temperature doesn't change all that much maybe just get the ghetto model. You'll probably only use it if you re-jet. For me I need to adjust it a 1/4 turn over or under 10 degrees Celcius. Under 10 2.5 Over 10 2.25 with what I have now.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 02:18:04 AM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Octane

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2011, 05:54:58 AM »
Temps here drop to single figures in Winter (deg C) and can go as high as 35 or once a few years ago it reached 40.

A side note, the K&N filter SU6505 is not what I call a perfect fit in the K6 onwards airbox. Yes it fits and seals but the outside lip is a touch too tall. Probably only by .5mm but it's enough in my books to warrant retooling that mould.
I have an opportunity to get a SU6000 K&N filter that suits K5 for $30. On the K&N 'site I checked the dimentions and they are near identical except the width is 2mm wider overall than the 6505. Anyone tried fitting a 6000 filter into a K6 onwards airbox?

Oh BTW, Happy new year  :beers:
2006 B12 112.5 Mains, adjustable needles (full rich), std pilots 3.75 turns out, K&N, airbox 1.5" mod, Staintune exh.

Offline rider123

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2011, 07:14:38 AM »
I have the Su-6000 and it's a perfect fit for my K5 not sure of the other ones though if that helps. As long as it seals your good.
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Octane

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2012, 02:21:18 PM »
2006 B12 112.5 Mains, adjustable needles (full rich), std pilots 3.75 turns out, K&N, airbox 1.5" mod, Staintune exh.

Offline rider123

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2012, 02:36:26 PM »
Is that your bike? Looks nice! I'm starting to feel bad. I may actually have to wash my bike!! You got some wicked gear there my friend. It's too bad you weren't racing a Harley for Pink slips you could have really gone crazy with the Bandit with the money you sell the Harley for. Did they give you the slips for the times, etc? If you can scan one or two that would be nice to look at.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 02:38:38 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.

Offline Octane

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2012, 02:44:55 PM »
I don't have a scanner unfortunately. I went for a ride yesterday to see if I could colour up the plugs a bit.
Must pull them out today and have a look. Bike runs really well ATM - even on standard "gas".

I did race a HD - he kicked my arse off the start. The Bandit wanted to wheelie and I backed off a bit, hit it again and it did little ones all the way down the track. I'll find the times of that race. I gotta give credit where credit is due - that guy got an awesome launch. If we went to comparing ET's then yes eventually I beat his time but the pressure was on me to not let him win and I was too agressive with the clutch too early and she bogged and wheelied and stuff. Well.... that's my excuse.
2006 B12 112.5 Mains, adjustable needles (full rich), std pilots 3.75 turns out, K&N, airbox 1.5" mod, Staintune exh.

Offline rider123

  • Board Homesteader!
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: Poor Mans Stage 1 kit
« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2012, 03:04:17 PM »
Yeah that's the problem I have even with our 20-30 pounds of fairing on the front these bikes really pump the power on fast and want to reach the sky. I bet if we popped in the GSXR cams it might be a little less crazy at least off the start. With the standard cams which pushes the torque farther down in the power band it doesn't take much distance to start getting into the sweet spot then up it goes. Try the advancer which should help down low and I'm sure it will be even crazier. Fortunately for me I have a built in slipper system---> a Rear Z6 Metzeler that while is great for wear but takes like half an hour to warm up properly. So if I give it too much gas it just starts spinning which is a little hairy as you can imagine. I'll change it in the spring as I got it for free almost brand new from a guy who put Perelli's on his BMW and it's getting a little tired.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 03:06:15 PM by rider123 »
2005 Bandit 1200, Modified Holeshot Stage 1 with 17.5 pilots 2.75 turns out, and 110 mains 5 shims. Muzzy Slip on w/mid-pipe, stock filter. 1.5" hole in the airbox lid.