vance and hines exhaust

[lethal dose]

not sure on jet sizes... bought the bike this way.
http://www.holeshot.com/bandit/bndt_b12_stage2.shtml
that's the kit. i've also been considering doing a supertrapp slip on if i can find a decent mid pipe without the flange. not entirely sure yet.

[lethal dose]

i run a kerker k series on my vmax. i pulled the core, removed all the packing, replaced the core, dyno'd it. sounds ignorant. thought about trying the same with the supertrapp... just removing the packing and replacing the perforated core then having it dyno'd. i like LOUD... as long as it performs. of course, i know the bandit will never sound like the vmax so i'm not exactly aiming for that.

[rider123]

What slip on do you have on the Bandit now? It's not the horrid stock pipe I hope! If you want to quickly check what jets are in there you can put the bike on the side stand and drain carb number 1's float bowl. You should be able to unscrew the bolts on the float bowl then CAREFULLY unscrew the mainjet and take a look. On the mainjet there will be a number something like 147.5 or 150 or something like that, just note what it is. CAREFULLY screw the mainjet nice and snug in there, it's soft brass so don't go jihad tightening it in there. If you are already running an aftermarket slip on and end can, chances are it will be fine. The worst that would happen is it would be a little lean up top as the new headers would flow more freely than the stock headers. If you already know that say you have 147.5's in there then you could buy some $8 insurance and get 150's in case you need them.

Mikuni jets go up in 2.5 increments ie 145, 147.5, 150, 152.5 etc. Popping in jets is not as hard as it sounds and you already don't have to deal with the bullshit airbox so it's even easier. If you are unsure of putting on the throttle and choke cables, you can loosen them enough that you can move the carb bank left and right or tilt it enough to get at the inner carbs. On my bike I can do it without even loosening the cables as I have hex bolts on the float bowls so all I have to do is use a bent allen key and move the carbs one notch left and right. If you were in the Toronto area I would just say come over with some beer and we'll do it together. There are lots of guys on this board that can help you out or we can walk you through it if you need the help.

If you like it loud with good breathing than the Dan Moto mini Carbon fibre would really be your style. It's too loud for me but allegedly it's a really good pipe and flow extremely well. Any slip on as long as it comes with a mid-pipe is going to do the job. If you do go with the V&H, because it comes with it's own headers you may need to go one or two up on the mainjets, but maybe you may need nothing. Only way is to pop it on and see if up top is weaker or stronger and look at the plugs. Just be advised that it's possible you may need a jetting change with a freer flowing exhaust setup.

For example say on my bike I'm awsome at 112.5's with my Muzzy slip on and mid pipe. If I add the stepped headers from Holeshot I'd probably have to go to 115's or maybe even 117.5's to get the benefit out of them as if you have more airflow you need more fuel or you're actually losing power. However if I kept the headers the same and just went to another slip on and mid-pipe 9 times out of 10 I wouldn't need any jetting changes or maybe just another shim or a 1/4 turn on the mixture screws max as it wouldn't greatly upset the airflow.

[lethal dose]

it's the stock head and mid pipe... been jet hot coated. two brothers m5 carbon flange on. i also have a two brothers c series flange on... both came with the bike. personally, i don't like either. they sound good and deep, just not loud or flashy enough. they are both for sale here on bandit alley for reasonable... i'd even take offers. as far as doing carb work, i'm no stranger to it... done lots of it. i'll have to gank the bowl and see what i'm running for a main. my guess is that if i slapped another mid pipe on and put a supertrapp on the end, i'd need no jetting. the two brothers runs a 2.5" core as it is, i believe. the supertrapp is 2". so, if anything, it might be a trade off, considering the stock mid pipe has it's own baffle of sorts in it. the vance and hines drag pipe may be a different story. my guess is in line with yours... at worst... i'd need to richen it up a bit. not sure which route ima take yet. was looking at the danmoto link pipe and the delkevic link pipe. both cheap options, and since i plan on jet hotting what ever i get, there's no need to drop a ton of coin. the nice thing about the delkevic is it utilizes the stock mounting points and doesnt just rely on the collector clamp and muffler clamp... the problem with it is... it has the flange on it that i don't want and cutting before the flange might not leave enough straight section of the pipe to clamp/weld another can on.

[rider123]

Most slipons with mid-pipe are just that, bolt it on and go. I'm using the stock mounting hardware with my Muzzy mid-pipe and slip on and it's nice and strong with no leaks. Once you start mixing and matching mid-pipes and slip ons things can get a little weird. Since you have the horrid stock mid-pipe you are almost getting no benefit out of the stage 2 you have on there. In fact I would be shocked if it was running much richer jets than stock. On these bikes most of the restriction is from the horrid mid-pipe. The end can does help alot, but most of the stupidity of the stock system starts after the collector box.

If you just replace the end can your not really getting the benefit out of having an open exhaust. It's like having a megaphone on a kazoo. Now I'm kind of worried about what jets are in there. If the previous owner did sort of a half-assed jet job(we see that alot here) it might be jetted a little wonky. Either it's running super rich with the recommended stage 2 jets in there or he's sort of created his own Frankenkit himself after realizing the recommended settings are way too rich. It might be worth the 20 mins if you can spare it to take a quick look at what the bike is running. Trust me you will get alot more power with a proper mid-pipe since that is about %65 of the restriction with the proper jets running in there. You may have to wear DEPENDS(R) adult undergarments just so you don't soil yourself once it's all setup  . Fortunately it's super cheap to get these bikes running right. It might be worth it to you to take a look at a consolidated mid-pipe/slip on solution as it will have been designed to work together rather than a Franken-solution.

I literally have the cheapest Muzzy you can get for this bike and the mid-pipe and end can hole size is at least 1.5 times what that horrid shit stock had. I got rid of the stock mid-pipe and end can the first week I got the bike and threw it out. I didn't even bother putting it on here for free, it's only good for like clubbing baby seals or something, if you can even lift it. Trust me its shit shit shit.

[rider123]

Here are a couple of bandit exhaust vids which may help you out for what your looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4CGpgsnm8g&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaxKQ0MZi-M


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOyKT18oMJU&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0uV9oeCs_4&feature=related



I didn't really do an exhaustive search but it may give you an idea. You're actually really lucky since someone did all the work of installing a stage 2 and pulling the airbox for you. You should be in great shape if you do go with something different. Did the previous owner clear out the stock mid-pipe? I've seen it rarely that some more enterprising people take the mid-pipe off and take all the crap out of it which helps alot. It would be just short of an aftermarket mid-pipe. I just threw the whole thing out however my stock GEN2 mid-pipe I believe is even worse than the GEN1 bikes.(sounds crazy but true) When I get a chance I'll mosey on to my storage site and measure the mid-pipe and end can for you. I believe it's a 2 inch core. I wanted something with some bite but not to attract too much attention. It's very similar to the touring 17" long end can Holeshot has. This may give you sort of an idea of what people are running.

[lethal dose]

well... i was looking through the boxes and boxes of parts that came with my bike. to my dismay, i found the receipt for the modified stage 1 holeshot jet kit. i'm wondering if the original owner did the mod 1 then swapped the airbox for the pod filters later on without rejetting. of course, the guy i bought it off of has no clue and isn't sure how to put me in contact with the original owner. i REALLY don't feel like tearing the carbs completely apart just to see what jets are in them. ugh.

[lethal dose]

ok... made some interesting headway. found a receipt with the original owner's contact info. the bike DOES have the full stage II setup including jetting. problem is... he THINKS he may have removed the 5 degree advance and put the stock back in but can't remember.    is there a good way to tell weather or not it has the 5 degree advance in it or not? there is a slight hesitation at cruising speed... nothing to the point that i'm concerned, but i'll be it's running a bit rich with the stage II and stock link pipe.

[lethal dose]

checking out some d&d stuff. seems pretty loud. problem is... they don't make a midpipe/can for the bandit 1200... just a can that bolts on to the original link pipe.

[rider123]

I don't understand why exhaust manufacturers would not at least offer a mid-pipe. While just having an end can helps a bit without the requisite mid-pipe its just noise. While I like having a great sound on a bike just as much as the next guy, it has to do something as well. Otherwise I would just go ride a Harley if I wanted to be slow and noisy. My friend had a Yoshimura slip on with mid-pipe on his Bandit but it was a little pricey as you can imagine. What you could do is maybe order the Dan Moto Carbon Fiber exhaust at $100 and just steal the nice stainless steel link pipe it comes with then put on the end can of your choice. It would probably be the easiest if you don't like the plain carbon fiber end can it comes with you could use it as a spare. Since you already have a couple of end cans you could change it every day of the week if you liked. When I bought my Muzzy it came as a kit:

1 End can with mounting hardware
1 Mid-Pipe that uses stock hardware
1 Center stand stop that bolted on to the centre stand bolt

I got it for $150 shipped years ago from ebay. I'll see if I can scare up some more out there in internetland because without the mid-pipe it's not really doing much. Another alternative is to take the stock mid-pipe off and gut it. I'm not sure how labour intensive or effective that is but some guys here have done it.
 

Heres the Dan Moto site for the Bandit. You could just get their cheapest exhaust system and steal the parts as all their mid-pipes are stainless steel like my Muzzy:

http://www.dan-moto.com/gsf-bandit-600-1200-n-s-wholesale-18_20_58.html?zenid=hp2949q6h7nngurthaql0g8u82


Really the exhaust only has to do a few things so you should be able to make it work:

1 Unrestrict the mid-pipe and end can
2 Provide baffling to not wake up the neighbors
3 Look at least semi-good and reduce weight

Thats it. So I guess if you did buy the Dan Moto exhaust and just didn't like the plain Carbon fiber end can(or whichever one you ordered), the mid-pipe has mounts for springs welded on there so you could theoretically use whatever 2" end can you wanted to instead of spending $300 on Yoshimura or something. If the end can only has a bolt to link to the mid-pipe then it still works fine and if you are worried about the spring loops attached to the mid-pipe you could cut them off with a dremel if it annoyed you enough. Either way you win.

[rider123]

As far as the slight hesitation if hes running the jets at the full rich stage 2 then hell yeah your rich!!! You could try maybe lowering the needle one notch and see if that cripins it up a bit. My guess is if you are hammering the throttle your dumping more fuel then it can take. However it may be worth it to just leave it and wait and see when a new exhaust with a proper mid-pipe comes along. I installed my Muzzy in like 15 mins on my bike and I'm no super mechanic. Might be worth it to leave it for now and wait until you can really jet it properly with a proper mid-pipe. Who knows with a proper mid-pipe on their it may just be perfect so maybe just hold off if you can for a week or two to see if you can scare something up. I know Muzzy sells the full kit but it's probably not the sound level your looking for as I did research to see what would un-restrict properly but not be too crazy as I live in a big city.

As far as the advancer is concerned I'm sorry I put mine on so long ago I can't remember if it has any markings on it or not. I did see my stock advancer a couple of weeks ago when rummaging through one of my hoarding piles of junk and it had no markings that I could tell. The advancer helps crispin the throttle and gets the power on a little faster. Maybe you could email Dale Walker at Holeshot and he could tell you what to look for. Just explain that you bought the bike used and the previous owner doesn't remember if the advancer is on their or not. If you wanted to check the advancer is on the right hand side of the bike beneath the timing cover. You can check it without draining the oil if you put the bike on the side stand and lean it over as much as possible then let it sit for a bit. Put a tinfoil turkey pan or something to catch any drips then take the bolts off and check, if your careful taking it off then you can save the gasket.

[lethal dose]

Delkevic makes an oem replacement link pipe with flange. Might be an option. Ima go pull a spark plug and get a generic a/f reading.

[rider123]

If you like post some pics here of the plugs so we can all have a look. Like I said I'm not sure if you would want to adjust the jetting now it's up to you. However lowering the needles a notch is a simple job and easily reversable. Did the gentleman you buy it from give you an idea on what mainjet you have kicking around in there?

Actually hold on I may be mis-interpreting what the previous owner was doing did you say he put stage 1 jets(the receipt) in the stage 2 pods? If so then it will be lean even with the bad mid-pipe. It sounds like he was getting bad advice or something. If true, then my guess is probably he did the stage 1 and with the wonky mid-pipe it was still too rich. So he probably said to himself "Well I guess it needs more air" then went off the deep end and put pods on there when the real culprit was the mid-pipe. I believe even on the GEN1 bike the jets would be around 125 or something but I'm not sure with the GEN1. My stage 1 for my GEN2 came with the following:

25 .5 mm shims for the needles
3 sets of mainjets 107.5's, 110's, 112.5's(stock is 100)
1 set of pilots 17.5's(stock is 15's)
instructions on how to mod the airbox.

Well don't fret it too much at least he did all the hard work for you. All you need now is to get a proper mid-pipe and some proper jets which is like $8. With a stage 2 and mid-pipe and slip on the mains should be running in the 150 range. I'm running the suggested 110 mains and the 17.5 pilots with a K&N filter right now. The suggested setup for my bike is to use the stock filter but I foolishly popped in the larger pilots based on the instructions instead of my own good common sense and it was horridly rich at cruise and idle. Popping in the K&N temporarily solved somewhat but it's still too rich at cruise. Up top it's a little weak so I've ordered larger mainjets and the stock pilots that I'll pop in there in the spring. I still have the airbox on there with an extra 1.5" hole. So if I'm a lean up top with the airbox on there still you'd be really lean with pods using a similar mainjet. Which may explain the hesitation.

Here is a good site that sort of gives you an idea of what you should be running. You sound to me you know what the hell your doing unlike the previous owner so I'm sure you'll get her running right in no time. Check this out:

http://www.portablepct.com/fastlarry/banditfaq.htm

I would just hold off to save you time and heartache until the real culprit the horrid stock mid-pipe is fixed that way your not jetting twice, however popping off one of the outer float bowls and having a peek is only about 15 mins of work that would definitely give you what the hell the guy was running. These bikes are almost ludicrously easy to get tuned so I wouldn't fret it too much. Every one and their mom on this site has a GEN1 stage 2 so you should be able to glean some good information. With the previous owner not remembering what the hell is in there is a little disconcerting. Who knows what he did, maybe he was trying to jet around the problem(shit stock mid-pipe) and now the jetting is wonky.

For example on my bike if I want to jet around the horridly rich cruise I can turn my mixture screws in so that the bike barely idles but cruise if fine and there is more power there but thats not a solution obviously. It's possible he decided that it was too rich and is artificially compensating with the needle or pilots instead of just fixing the problem. The stage 1 and 2 kits really only work properly with an aftermarket mid-pipe and slip on. You could jet it properly manually but then don't buy the kit, just a selection of mainjets. But maybe he read something on the internet and only got it half right like the broken telephone game where you pass a message along then see whats left of the message. He had the right idea but just didn't execute it correctly.

[lethal dose]

ok... i pulled the float bowls and ganked the main. 147.5... so my guess is he did install the stage 2 kit. as for the plugs, they were kinda nondescript. the base of the insulator surrounding the center electrode was tanish but the tip was still white and clean looking. the ground electrode was also pretty nondescript... probably more on the light then dark side. there was a ring of soot around the rim of the threads. to add... they were changed just 400 miles ago, so i might need to "break them in" just a tad longer. i certainly don't think the bike could possibly run lean with a 147.5 and the stock mid pipe. ima go put a few miles on it, here.

[rider123]

Good job your lucky having those 147.5s in there! Ok so at least you know what the hell is going on. The sooty base ring is a sign of rich condition. Since the top electrode and the tip are clean the pilots and cruise is probably fine. How about way down at the base of the porcelain electrode? This will show the base jetting. My guess is that on full throttle your going to be rich with the stock mid-pipe which is why your base ring is a bit sooty. Theoretically you should have one light turn of colour on the base ring and the centre electrode should be clean with some light colouring. If the tips have black streaks or soot then the pilots or mixture screws are too rich but for you it seems perfectly fine. I have a feeling it's slightly rich between the two of us due to the stock mid-pipe killing the flowing at higher rpm's. If the porcelain is clean all the way down to say the last 1/3 with no black streaks then your needle setting is probably fine as well. You may be in better shape than you think. With a proper mid-pipe on there you may have to richen the needle and/or turn the mixture screws out a 1/4 turn but for now it's not bad just slightly rich(which makes sense). As the miles pile up it will colour more and give you a better idea. If the base ring(the ring where the ground strap is welded to) is already a little sooty after only 400 miles then you are most likely rich on the mains with the stock mid-pipe. With an aftermarket mid-pipe you will probably be very very close or have to go one up to 150's and/or adjust the needles and pilots screws but not too much.

If possible if you can find a safe place to really hammer the throttle and do a plug chop that will really tell you what's going on as far as the mains are concerned.